kipwinger

At this point I'd say that there's even money that Brunner will show up and make a difference. You're right, the Swiss league is weak, but the kid did put up incredibly impressive numbers at the World Championships against NHL level talent. I know the international game is on bigger ice and isn't as physical, but it's not as though he's only ever played against garbage competition.

"I heard from a very reputable former nhl goalie" that your posts lack supporting evidence and therefore any sort of credibility whatsoever. Perhaps if you were on a good team you could ride the coattails of the guys around you and between the group, finally fashion a criticism of Jimmy Howard that wasn't entirely founded upon hearsay and your own baseless and irrational disdain for him... that is, if you played for a good team.

yeah they were definitely in the same group, region I think they were calling them. Anyway, it was us, Chicago, St. Louis, Nashville, Dallas, Columbus, Minnesota, and Winnipeg.

Lundqvist, Rhinne, Quick, Smith, Elliott, Halak, Schnieder, Luongo, and Fleury all play for good teams. How is Jimmy any different? This is the same backward logic used by people who hated on Osgood. "Osgood played for a good team, he wasn't that good". As if Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur were on garbage teams their whole careers.

Well to be fair, this postseason was also the only time Semin had a coach other than Bruce Boudreau. Perhaps it was Dale Hunter's coaching that improved his two way game. In which case, there's every reason to believe that Babcock could do the same. Note: His rookie year Boudreau wasn't the coach, so you might have me there.

How is he not? Sixth in the league in goals against average, tied for ten in save percentage, and tied for fifth in wins. I think making it into the top ten in every major goaltending category automatically makes you one of the top 15 (at least) goalies in the league. Unless you'd like to chalk all of that up to the fact that he played on the team with the seventh best defense in the league last season.

Right, I understand your logic there, but in actuality I think that in the long run it's better for us to have a solid top six than it is for the Blackhawks to have a weak defense. I think it's bad form to bank our success on another team's weaknesses.

I don't really see the Hawks being willing to outbid anyone for Doan. Of course they checked into it, you'd be dumb not to. But they're stacked up front and could better use the money to shore up a weak defense and goaltending situation.

Fact: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula, Kronwall, Franzen, Quincey, Eriksson, Helm, Howard, Hudler, Abdelkader, Smith, and Nyquist were all scouted and drafted by people not named Scotty Bowman. Datsyuk was the first of those listed to be drafted (1998). Ken Holland was named sole GM of the team in 1997. Scotty Bowman didn't have s*** to do with it. Nobody is trying to undermine what Scotty did for the team, but to suggest that Holland has not drafted anyone worth a damn during his tenure, and that all the success the team has seen under Holland should really be given to Bowman is retarded. Bowman was the GM from 1993-1997. Here's a quick look at his most prominant drafts: Anders Eriksson Norm Maracle Mathieu Dandenault Tomas Holmstrom Yuri Butsayev Additionally, Yzerman, Osgood, Fedorov, Konstantinov, Kozlov, Primeau, McCarty, Lidstrom, and Lapointe were all drafted before Scotty joined the organization. Your honor, I rest my case.

What a useful post. Thanks for the explanation and the link...that was totally awesome of you to be so thorough.

wait, there's an ignore feature? I had no idea.

Most of this is completely B.S. Scotty Bowman, as a coach (and especially as an advisor), didn't have anything to do with who got scouted, rated, and ultimately drafted by the Wings. Giving Bowman and not Holland credit for finding and drafting the likes Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall, Franzen, etc. is completely absurd. Unless Scotty was secretly flying over to Sweden and Russia to catch games, I'd say his role was rather limited. As a coach he probably did play a fairly large part in what free agents were signed and who made it through camp and all that. But this nonsense might as well give him credit for sunshine.

After all the lauding and back slapping the fans, organization, and sports media have given the Wild since the Parise Suter acquisions I started to sit down and really think about how dangerous these moves really made them. Certainly all the reactionaries around the hockey world have already penciled them as one of the top teams in the west. But anymore, being a top team doesn't cut it, you have to be elite, and in my opinion...elite they aren't. Obviously building a roster is an evolutionary thing, and I'm certainly not claiming to know much about their prospects and young talent, but for what it's worth I can think of at least 5 teams in the West scarier than the Wild. San Jose and Chicago are better up front than Minny with as good or better defenses, but with worse goaltending. Vancouver and Los Angeles are better in every regard. St. Louis has a better defense and goaltending, but doesn't have the offensive punch. As for Nashville and Detroit...well, let's just wait and see on those. So here's my question, is anybody else not afraid of the big bad wolf?

Seriously, there's still time for the Captain to bail us out on this one.

I don't think he's dead weight, but I will go on record as saying that I would prefer him on the third line, where he's a mismatch against almost any team in the league.

I don't think it's so much that you've added anything, but rather that you've changed. It certainly doesn't work in every case, but if you repeatedly try the same thing and it doesn't work, then there's really no point in sticking with it. Years ago, the Wings traded a first round pick, the best power forward they had, and a sure fire Hall of Famer for Brendan Shanahan, not because they were getting the best player in the world, but because they were getting a quality (and different) look after years of trying the same things without success. I think that the team is in a similar situation now. Obviously, the talent we have now is good. I'd love to keep Flip or Franzen or Cleary or Bert or whomever, if possible. But we keep trying that same lineup, and we keep getting the same results. Maybe we don't have to constantly upgrade, maybe a lateral move (just for the sake of change) is what we really need. I'm obviously not an NHL general manager, but there's a point where you have to admit that the status quo is just not working anymore. Perhaps that time is now.

In my opinion we don't need a reclaimation project on defense unless we completely overload on offense to compensate for the potentially weak D. Otherwise, I think it's a smart move to trade for an established, top two, defenseman and then sign the available forwards to help. This is why the Sameulsson no trade clause doesn't make sense to me. If they were planning on 1) allowing the young guys to take a larger role or 2) trading the acquired assets for a high end piece, then giving Sammy an NTC doesn't make sense. I really think that one of Sammy, Cleary, or Bert is still going to be in the top six, in which case our top six is still going to lack the kind of depth that it has consistently lacked for three years. I'm drunk right now, so I'm willing to admit that my exasperation is in full tilt, but I still see the same problems that have existed for a few years in the forward corps, and now we have a weaker defense to boot. Unless other moves are made, and legitimate game changing ones at that, I have no reason to believe that our team has improved one iota, in spite of all this money we've been saving. Years ago I was in the army, and one of the valuable lessons I learned while there was that any action is better than inaction. If you do something and it's a mistake, then you learn from it and move on. If you do something and it works, then you learn from the success and duplicate. The worst thing that you can do is nothing, in which case you neither learn from your failures, nor your successes, and you're stuck treading water, constantly waiting for some outside force to come along and show you the right path. That outside factor will never show up. Do something, or else stagnate. I hope to god that Ken Holland and the rest of the top brass understand that same lesson.

While I was ideally trying to turn this thread into something other than a "What's Next for Holland" discussion, I'm pleased that I've finally started a thread that has actually held a discussion for more than a page. Self high five *******!!!!!!!

If this is true I'm going to throw up. Now watch as Semin puts up great numbers because of the quality play of his centermen, just like James Neal did last year. Oh if only we had high quality centermen who could consistently improve the play of mid level wingers...oh wait...ugh.

I'll take that bet. They were last in the league in "goals for". So, unless Zach Parise scores 40 goals and 100 pts. (which he's never done in his career), they haven't really improved that much. Suter helps the defense, which was middle of the road at best.

I'm optimistically hoping this doesn't happen. However, in the dark recesses of my brain I'm preparing myself for this with extreme frustration.

I don't understand how Holland and company can "go out of their comfort zone" for Jordinf****** Tootoo, but don't seem to be willing to do it for a guy with Semin's talent. I realize that Tootoo is cheaper and is signed short term, and I'm really hoping it's the term and price that are holding up a deal with Semin and not some sort of b.s. concern about his character or motivation or whatever. Get this done and sign Doan if possible and there's a real possibility that our forward corps looks like this next season: Note: numbers indicate a conservative estimate for goals from each player. Semin (25) - Datsyuk (20) - Franzen (25) Filppula (15) - Zetterberg (25) - Doan (20) Cleary (15) - Helm (5) - Samuelsson (15) Bertuzzi (10) - Abby (5) - Miller (10)/Tootoo (5)/Eaves (10) Brunner (?) However if Emmerton put up 6 or 7 then I don't think it's unrealistic to expect at least that much from Brunner. Additionally, it's obvious that there are a ton of extra forwards so I anticipate a trade on defense where possible.

I'd imagine with losing Connor, and potentially Janik and Exelby, that Brunnstrom will be back. I don't see the 50 contract limit being a factor here.

How long has it been since we had a guy who could pick the corners? 2009...Hossa? He only had a measly 40 goals that season and drew enough defensive attention to allow Franzen a career year. However, I don't care if Semin came here and didn't put up 40. If he had 25, Franzen had 25, Datsyuk had 20 and about 50 assists, I'd be thrilled. How is that not better than Datsyuk at 20, Franzen at 28, and Bertuzzi at 14? Plus, this allows us to put Bertuzzi and Sammy, or Bertuzzi and Cleary on the third line, which is a mismatch against most teams in the league. Finally, as I've said all along. The criticisms of Semin are more appropriately criticisms of Bruce Boudreau, under who's tutelage each and every single member of the Washington Capitals could be termed a "lazy, unmotivated, inconsistent, under achiever". I like this signing...especially at this point.

Jesus, I went camping all weekend in the UP and this is what I come back to? No Suter, no Parise, no high end talent of any type. But Mikael f****** Samuelsson and Jordin Tootoo! What the hell happened? I hope to God Kenny has a trick or two up his sleeve because there is no way in hell that Mikael Samuelsson and Jordin Tootoo should be wearing Red Wings sweaters next season.