kipwinger

Read it again, I didn't say that Kindl was better than Ericsson. I said Quincey/Kindl is better than Ericsson/Kindl. In this situation the comparison is whether Quincey is better than Ericsson, as Kindl is the common partner in each case. I didn't compare Ericsson to Kindl. Take a minute to catch up and then think to yourself, "is a pairing of Quincey and Kindl (what we have now because of an injury to Ericsson) a better pairing than one with Ericsson and Kindl (what we had two weeks ago because Quincey wasn't on the team)?" Obviously the best scenario is Quincey and Ericsson, and I suggested as much in my original post. It was probably the slash that threw you off. I'll use a dash next time when denoting defensive pairings.

I know a lot of people disagree, but I consider Burke one of the better GM's in the league. If both he and Holland are saying there wasn't s*** on the trade market for the prices asked, then I have a tendency to believe it. And I agree with you, thank god we're already a contender. As pissed as people are at Holland for doing nothing, I can only imagine the rage being showered on Burke right now.

I think everybody (including Holland) realized we needed more scoring up front, and maybe (I don't agree with this but many do) a little grit on the bottom six. But considering nothing much was available for the price, it never hurts to shore up your defense before the playoffs. No matter how you look at it, the pair of Ericsson and Quincey is considerably better than Ericsson/Kindl or Ericsson/Commodore. As a matter of fact, even Quincey/Kindl is better than Ericsson/Kindl. So no matter how you look at it, we're a better team now (injuries aside) than we were two weeks ago. Long story short...I agree with you.

I appreciate you guys' enthusiasm, but how can you possibly want to speculate about trades right now? The deadline takes it all out of me. At this point I'd rather listen to people unnecessarily criticize Hudler and Ericsson than fantasize about future trades. I'm sure I'll change my mind in a week though...ugh.

Good point. 50 years from now everybody will remember that Franzen had comparable, yet slightly better numbers than Cleary did during the same time period, and worked about 1/3 as hard per shift. You're right, stats don't tell the whole story. And with Franzen the whole story is: talented yet opportunistic scorer with less than desirable work ethic, who posted moderately impressive numbers in spite of his own laziness, on the best/one of the best offensive teams in each year of his entire career. Such a write up puts him in the same category as other illustrious Red Wings. Notably, Keith Primeau and Robert Lang.

Yeah, I definitely misunderstood you. I'm so used to hearing the excuse "but he's great in the playoffs" that maybe I'm just a little too defensive now. Anyway, sorry to jump your case.

I've thought Mursak has been good lately. He's fast, forechecks hard, disrupts the opposition's transition game, and handles/distributes the puck well in the offensive zone. While I agree the fourth line isn't great, I think it's considerably better than it was without Mursak. I'd still like to see Eaves back though.

He had 80 pts. last year and was top 10 or 15 in the league in scoring...so no, I haven't noticed a steady decline since 2008. Strangely enough, I have noticed a proliferation of reactionary commentators on this thread since about 3:00 p.m. though.

In 475 Red Wings games, Cleary has 109 goals and 135 assists for 244 points. Does he get a free pass too, since his numbers are comparable? I'm sick and tired of Franzen getting a free pass because everyone wrongly assumes his numbers are great. They're good...not great. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom all have better numbers than Franzen, both playoff and regular season, and we expect each of them to bring an A game every night. If our stars don't get a pass for producing, neither should anybody else.

But Kyle Quincey isn't an all star, how could he ever possibly help us out?

Where are you from and what does this even mean?

Agreed. Since the lockout Zetterberg's numbers in the playoffs are better than Franzen's in every category and we don't make excuses for him all season long. We expect stars to be stars in Detroit.

Exactly. This is something that's been little discussed in the fallout of the Quincey trade. Why wasn't Detroit interested in Downie if they really wanted a gritty bottom six guy that can chip in some offense? I don't know the answer, but I hope it's because they've got something else up their sleeves.

Is one of the other boys playing too rough with the big bad Bruins? Boo hoo.

Don't you suppose that playing good fundamental hockey (e.g. going to the high traffic areas and banging in rebounds/deflecting pucks), could also get you back into a game...because it actually yields results? They scored because they did exactly what every kid is taught to do on every hockey team on earth. Go to the traffic areas and work. Now, if you want to suggest that Abby getting beat up was what caused them to start playing fundamental hockey again then I wouldn't argue with you about it. Not because I think you're right, but because you can't really prove it either way. Don't you think there's a chance that the team got motivated to play better toward the end of the third because they didn't really want to get embarrassed by a mediocre team, on home ice, two games after setting a record for the longest home winning streak? It's at least as plausible of an explanation as crediting all this to Abby repeatedly getting punched in the face.

players often score goal by going to the front of the net and tipping in deflections and rebounds. That's day one stuff. Not really sure how playing fundamental hockey is now credited to watching your teammate get his ass beat. Then again I'm new to sports so what do I know about doing it right. Also, you don't have to be a prick when you respond...just for future reference.

Are you seriously giving credit for that goal to a fight that Abby got worked over in, rather than Hudler going to the net and doing some dirty work?

Yeah because that would somehow cure our offensive and injury issues. Just like fighting gives your guys a boost eh?

No idea buddy, but good luck

I'm confused now, are both Cleary and Staal ineffective third liners who make too much money, or do you single Cleary out based on nothing like factual knowledge or context? You keep disagreeing about him but I have yet to see you back up anything you say with any sort of evidence except the extremely anecdotal "whenever I watch him, he always does this one thing I don't like".

Hahaha wait, are you suggesting both Cleary and Staal are bad now? Also, good call on the points thing, they don't matter at all. Points, both past and projected are what a player's contract is based on, which in turn is what we've been debating here, money for value. "So what if he's played extremely well for the very little money we've payed him. What's he done for me lately?" Considering every player on our team, except Filppula, is below their career highs who couldn't you say this about (by the way Cleary had is best career season last year)? Are you ready to trade 3/4 of the team because they're not performing like they did in the past or do you suppose we should stick to this whole loyalty thing that's been working for us for so many years?

I was just commenting on this in another thread and thought I'd start something here. Looking at the season splits on ESPN I noticed something problematic. I know the Wings are the best team in hockey right now, and I'm not trying to be overly pessimistic, I think we're largely as good as anybody out there and I can't complain, but if you look at the areas where we're weak something stands out pretty obviously. Datysuk (+/-) Overall: 18, On the Road: 4, In Wins: 25, In Losses: -7 Franzen (+/-) Overall: 27, On the Road: 7, In Wins: 33, In Losses: -6 Bertuzzi (+/-) Overall: 21, On the Road: 9, In Wins: 20, In Losses: 1 Filppula (+/-) Overall: 15, On the Road: -6, In Wins: 28, In Losses: -13 Zetterberg (+/-) Overall: 8, On the Road: -6, In Wins: 26, In Losses: -18 Hudler (+/-) Overall: 6, On the Road: -9, In Wins: 21, In Losses: -15 Kronwall: Overall: -1, On the Road: -11, In Wins: 16, In Losses: -17 Stuart: Overall: 16, On the Road: -4, In Wins: 28, In Losses: -12 White: Overall: 28, On the Road: 10, In Wins: 22, In Losses: 6 Lidstrom: Overall: 26, On the Road: 2, In Wins: 35, In Losses: -9 I wanted to compare the top two lines as whole units considering +/- is a group stat. What jumps out at me is that while we don't lose much, when we do lose, it's usually (and obviously) on the road, and it's usually the second line getting scored on/not scoring. Aside from trading for a top six guy, which we've all talked about to death, does anybody see a solution to this problem or are we just going to have to deal with it and hope our first and third lines win us games on the road. I mean, presumably we can't win all our playoff home games...um...right? Note: I guess I should add that while Filppula and Hudler's production has dipped slightly of late, Zetterberg's is picking up, and all of them are having good seasons IMO. So don't take this as a knock on individual players, but as a unit there's something not quite clicking for them on the road.

Does this mean that we'll have to resign Hudler for an actual zillion dollar?

Ground breaking point you've just made. Do you suppose Clearly wasn't making as much back in 2006 as he is now too? In 2006 Staal made 2.2 million after all of his bonuses. Without all of his bonuses he made 850,000 dollars. How much did Cleary make in 2006? 650,000 dollars before bonuses, and 650,000 dollars after bonuses. So unless you want to quibble about 200,000 dollars (in favor of my point I might add) I would expect you to either admit that Cleary is good value for money, or to level the same criticisms against guys like Staal as you do about Cleary. If you're not willing to do that, then I'd say that you've just got it out for Cleary. And you know what's funny, all this because I said he had one good game. Weak. Here's the salary numbers. http://capgeek.com/p...play.php?id=288 http://capgeek.com/p...play.php?id=477

is it just me, or do those pictures of Carter and Richards remind you of the same two douchy s***heads you see in every college bar in the country? Maybe the douchy frat guy schtick was invented in Canada.