kipwinger

here's the last thing I"m going to say about the size thing. Since the lockout, Boston and Anaheim are the only big team that have won a cup. Neither us, Chicago, Pittsburgh, or Carolina were all that big. Big teams CAN win, obviously. And so CAN smaller teams. There's no recipe for building a cup winning team, and being big certainly isn't a prerequisite.

Oh, gotcha

Combined weight of current Wings roster excluding goalies, 4778 lbs. Combined weight of current Sharks roster excluding goalies, 4780 lbs.

Pretty sure it was Couture, Pavelski, and Setoguchi that killed the Wings in the playoffs the last two years. How big are they again?

Smith has 3 turnovers for goals in the last 5 games. During that time he has 2 assists. He is NOT playing better than either Ericsson or Kindl were. Maybe one day, but right now, he's a rookie and it shows.

Do these types of comments feel as silly coming out as they sound to those of us reading them. Holland doesn't know how to win? Babcock is a lap dog? Geesh...lighten up already, the team has a few little problems to fix in the off season when they don't have to over spend. All their other problems are injury related. Nuff said.

He's below Nyquist, Tatar, Andersson, Connor and probably Brunnstrom on the depth chart. It IS a stretch to think he'd ever be called up this season to play.

Well I don't really want to get carried away and suggest we remove half the team or anything, but I think a healthy Cleary and Adbelkader replacing Emmerton and Holmer on the fourth is a huge improvment, and Eaves or Nyquist on the other wing with Helm and Miller is an improvement. That's only replacing two, which is more manageable. I get as frustrated with inconsistent play as most people do, and would love to see the wings making a big splash in free agency, but being the minimalist I am, I'm just trying to think of way to improve the team with essentially our current roster. I agree with both statements. But I really don't see what either of those guys can do that Nyquist and Abdelkader couldn't do better, in the exact same positions. Basically I'd like to see this Bert-Dats-Franzen Flip-Z-Nyquist Miller-Helm-Eaves *Cleary-Abby-Mursak Connor *Depending on how the knee feels Cleary and Eaves are interchangeable. I for one think the knee will be fine, and next year Cleary bounces back 100% I think that's a huge improvement over the current team, and you don't have to go crazy in free agency to do it. Spend the money on Nick's replacement.

I honestly don't really have too much of a problem with Hudler, but I do think he's a fairly opportunistic scorer who gets a lot of goals based on Flip and Z's hard work. Given his speed and skill set, I don't see why Nyquist wouldn't be able to put up around 20 goals on a line with those two. But again, I don't hate Hudler or anything, he just is what he is.

Here's a hypothetical, just to see what you guys think. Imagine our team with Nyquist in for Hudler, and a bottom six of Miller-Helm-Eaves, and a healthy Cleary-Abdelkader-Mursak, with the same top line. How much better does that look than what we're fielding now? However, in the short term I think Nyquist should stay in for Cleary when Franzen is back, and have Abdelkader centering the fourth line when Helm is back...ugh.

Think winning might be easier if we didn't have to dig back from 2+ goals every night...christ!

I know they don't really have any options and so I can't blame them for doing it, but I for one don't like the idea of Nyquist and Datsyuk together. To me, their styles are too similar and they don't really compliment one another. Like I said, I know they don't have a choice, but I'm not expecting this pairing to mesh well.

Still think he's a top pair guy after his two boneheaded turnovers, in two games, leading to two goals? Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Helm, Abdelkader, and Smith are untouchable but not Filppula huh? I really hope that was an oversight.

Oh ok. Well Torts isn't very successful and he inspires by being a hardass, and Bruce Boudreau isn't very successful and uses the other approach. My guess is, either method could be successful depending on the way the coach and the team interact.

I'm joining this conversation late. What was your point about the differing methods of inspiration?

Haha, I get what it is, and I'm not condemning you or anything. I'm just saying that if you go back to the beginning of any argument you'll usually find two individuals or groups inevitably instigating one another. Ten minutes, days, years, or pages later that basic dynamic is obscured and you're left with irrelevant ping ponging back and forth. Again, the basic facts are this. The Blues are a better team (right now), but this is a Wings forum so acknowledging that the Blues are a good team is one thing, fan boying them is totally different (and out of place here).

Who does this? You are being awfully general while still indicting every member on this board. Some people may think Holland can do no wrong. Most people acknowledge that he does a damn good job, and that managing a team to the Stanley Cup is probably pretty difficult, and therefore we cut him some ******* slack when he fails to do that thing we (as individual fans) really wanted him to do. Could the team be better? Probably. Is it as easy to make those decisions as you or I might think? Probably not.

Well to be fair, and I know this won't make me any friends around here, there's just as much obnoxious and demonstrably false Blues bashing around here as well. Everybody knows that this is a Wings forum, and that talking up anybody else will be met with a certain degree of hostility, but I can't count the number of times I've read "St. Losers" or the like. And then once that ball inevitably starts rolling you get "Oh yeah, well the Blues are better this year!" to which we get "Nu-uh, how many cups huh?...huh?...huh?...that's what I thought...4 in 15 baby...4 in 15!" Which is all entirely beside the point which, to the best of my knowledge, is that the Blues are a better team this year (so far) but nevertheless, this is still a Wings forum.

Haha, Oh you didn't know that unless we win the cup every single year the entire team, including coach and GM are worthless and need to be replaced by overpriced free agents and unproven AHL prospects? Yeah...me either. Which isn't to say that there aren't ways to improve ANY team in the league, but that those decisions become a hell of a lot easier to make in hindsight.

Pittsburgh 2008-2009. 19-15-6. Boom!

I like the Blues in the first round much better than I like anybody in the Pacific Division, and maybe even the Canucks. LA are chokers in the playoffs, San Jose isn't even in the picture now, and neither Dallas nor Phoenix have enough depth to go too far. Blues are fairly safe in the first.

Very few "30 goal guys" play all 82 games every year. Rick Nash is a 30 goal guy and he's only played a full season once. Here's a link to what a 30 goal guy looks like. Certainly not Franzen, I don't care how many games he plays. http://espn.go.com/n.../1569/rick-nash Correction, Nash has never played a full season and yet averages over 30 a season. That's a 30 goal guy. Last I knew we didn't determine a guy's worth by his projected stats.

Johan Franzen has scored 30 goals or more once...once!

I agree with you. Unlike many on here, I don't think Cleary is past it, or washed up, or whatever. I think he's just been playing hurt for a really long time and I agree that it would probably be better for him to sit right now rather than try to struggle through it and be ineffective.