kipwinger

Agreed. Since the lockout Zetterberg's numbers in the playoffs are better than Franzen's in every category and we don't make excuses for him all season long. We expect stars to be stars in Detroit.

Exactly. This is something that's been little discussed in the fallout of the Quincey trade. Why wasn't Detroit interested in Downie if they really wanted a gritty bottom six guy that can chip in some offense? I don't know the answer, but I hope it's because they've got something else up their sleeves.

Is one of the other boys playing too rough with the big bad Bruins? Boo hoo.

Don't you suppose that playing good fundamental hockey (e.g. going to the high traffic areas and banging in rebounds/deflecting pucks), could also get you back into a game...because it actually yields results? They scored because they did exactly what every kid is taught to do on every hockey team on earth. Go to the traffic areas and work. Now, if you want to suggest that Abby getting beat up was what caused them to start playing fundamental hockey again then I wouldn't argue with you about it. Not because I think you're right, but because you can't really prove it either way. Don't you think there's a chance that the team got motivated to play better toward the end of the third because they didn't really want to get embarrassed by a mediocre team, on home ice, two games after setting a record for the longest home winning streak? It's at least as plausible of an explanation as crediting all this to Abby repeatedly getting punched in the face.

players often score goal by going to the front of the net and tipping in deflections and rebounds. That's day one stuff. Not really sure how playing fundamental hockey is now credited to watching your teammate get his ass beat. Then again I'm new to sports so what do I know about doing it right. Also, you don't have to be a prick when you respond...just for future reference.

Are you seriously giving credit for that goal to a fight that Abby got worked over in, rather than Hudler going to the net and doing some dirty work?

Yeah because that would somehow cure our offensive and injury issues. Just like fighting gives your guys a boost eh?

No idea buddy, but good luck

I'm confused now, are both Cleary and Staal ineffective third liners who make too much money, or do you single Cleary out based on nothing like factual knowledge or context? You keep disagreeing about him but I have yet to see you back up anything you say with any sort of evidence except the extremely anecdotal "whenever I watch him, he always does this one thing I don't like".

Hahaha wait, are you suggesting both Cleary and Staal are bad now? Also, good call on the points thing, they don't matter at all. Points, both past and projected are what a player's contract is based on, which in turn is what we've been debating here, money for value. "So what if he's played extremely well for the very little money we've payed him. What's he done for me lately?" Considering every player on our team, except Filppula, is below their career highs who couldn't you say this about (by the way Cleary had is best career season last year)? Are you ready to trade 3/4 of the team because they're not performing like they did in the past or do you suppose we should stick to this whole loyalty thing that's been working for us for so many years?

I was just commenting on this in another thread and thought I'd start something here. Looking at the season splits on ESPN I noticed something problematic. I know the Wings are the best team in hockey right now, and I'm not trying to be overly pessimistic, I think we're largely as good as anybody out there and I can't complain, but if you look at the areas where we're weak something stands out pretty obviously. Datysuk (+/-) Overall: 18, On the Road: 4, In Wins: 25, In Losses: -7 Franzen (+/-) Overall: 27, On the Road: 7, In Wins: 33, In Losses: -6 Bertuzzi (+/-) Overall: 21, On the Road: 9, In Wins: 20, In Losses: 1 Filppula (+/-) Overall: 15, On the Road: -6, In Wins: 28, In Losses: -13 Zetterberg (+/-) Overall: 8, On the Road: -6, In Wins: 26, In Losses: -18 Hudler (+/-) Overall: 6, On the Road: -9, In Wins: 21, In Losses: -15 Kronwall: Overall: -1, On the Road: -11, In Wins: 16, In Losses: -17 Stuart: Overall: 16, On the Road: -4, In Wins: 28, In Losses: -12 White: Overall: 28, On the Road: 10, In Wins: 22, In Losses: 6 Lidstrom: Overall: 26, On the Road: 2, In Wins: 35, In Losses: -9 I wanted to compare the top two lines as whole units considering +/- is a group stat. What jumps out at me is that while we don't lose much, when we do lose, it's usually (and obviously) on the road, and it's usually the second line getting scored on/not scoring. Aside from trading for a top six guy, which we've all talked about to death, does anybody see a solution to this problem or are we just going to have to deal with it and hope our first and third lines win us games on the road. I mean, presumably we can't win all our playoff home games...um...right? Note: I guess I should add that while Filppula and Hudler's production has dipped slightly of late, Zetterberg's is picking up, and all of them are having good seasons IMO. So don't take this as a knock on individual players, but as a unit there's something not quite clicking for them on the road.

Does this mean that we'll have to resign Hudler for an actual zillion dollar?

Ground breaking point you've just made. Do you suppose Clearly wasn't making as much back in 2006 as he is now too? In 2006 Staal made 2.2 million after all of his bonuses. Without all of his bonuses he made 850,000 dollars. How much did Cleary make in 2006? 650,000 dollars before bonuses, and 650,000 dollars after bonuses. So unless you want to quibble about 200,000 dollars (in favor of my point I might add) I would expect you to either admit that Cleary is good value for money, or to level the same criticisms against guys like Staal as you do about Cleary. If you're not willing to do that, then I'd say that you've just got it out for Cleary. And you know what's funny, all this because I said he had one good game. Weak. Here's the salary numbers. http://capgeek.com/p...play.php?id=288 http://capgeek.com/p...play.php?id=477

is it just me, or do those pictures of Carter and Richards remind you of the same two douchy s***heads you see in every college bar in the country? Maybe the douchy frat guy schtick was invented in Canada.

No doubt Moen and Gaustad are better than Mursak and Emmerton. It would be impossible to disagree with that.

I've been reading that he's considering taking a second round pick and a prospect on Grabovski, just because the Leafs aren't a realistic playoff threat, and Grabovski is asking a boat load to resign next year. If they don't get a deal done before monday, I expect Burke to move him, but I agree with you, it's hard saying what he'll get in return. http://www.freep.com/article/20120222/SPORTS18/120222055/detroit-red-wings-trade-rumors-nhl

I understand that, but I think we've got the guys to do that anyway. I see no reason why our defensively responsible and much tougher third line can't perform that task. Abby, Helm, and Miller were having one of their better games of the season last night and they were kept off the ice in the final minute and look what happened. Gaustad and Moen are good players, and I won't be upset if either of them come here, but not because I think we need someone to handle the rough stuff, we're fine in that department.

Grabovski dude, that's all I'm saying.

As a matter of fact, the only injury we've sustained in the last 5 or 6 years that could be attributed to a "message sending" incident was Stuart's broken jaw. And I hardly think Brad Stuart is the kind of guy who needs a big brother on the ice protecting him. "Message sending" rarely happens in today's game, and when it does, no tough guy in the world is going to prevent it. I didn't see the presence of Paul Gaustad preventing Lucic from running over Miller this season, and after the poor showing Gaustad had in his fight with Lucic the next game, I hardly think Lucic has been deterred from sending another message again when he feels like it.

Sorry I changed that last post on you. Anyway, we've been in that situation a lot over the years and I don't recall anyone sending any messages which were ever something to be worried about, at least not anymore than a team losing 4-0 is bound to do at any other point in the game.

Depends on the score. Last night we had Bert, Z, and Franzen out with under a minute and we didn't have to worry about some tough guy sending a message, we had to worry about getting scored on and losing the game. And IMO neither Moen or Gaustad would have helped much in a situation like that, except maybe Gaustad would have won the damn faceoff.

How do you guys feel about Mikhail Grabovski and do you think it's possible? I'll admit I have never paid that much attention to him, but I just watched a video of every goal he scored last season and was impressed with how often he scores on his shot. I'd really like a shooter. Your thoughts?

Since 2006: Cleary: 116 goals, 133 assists, 397 games played, 2.8 million salary. Jordan Staal: 114 goals, 111 assists, 409 games played, 4 million dollars salary. My point? Quite bitching.

Dude I agree with everything you said, but if you look back over the posts you'll see my whole line of comments came as a response to someone who thought we should get these guys to stop Joe Thornton, and guys like him, from "mugging" Pavel, Hank, and Lidstrom. I just said that this particular justification is stupid. Not that Moen or Gaustad where bad players. And after watching Franzen blow his coverage last night on the game tying goal in the waning seconds of the third, I'd be thrilled to see almost any player on the ice in the last minute rather than him and big Bert. No knock on Bert, but maybe someone with a little defensive acumen when you're trying to protect a lead. Nevermind, that's beside the point.

WAIT...WHAT?...THE THRASHERS ARE MOVING BACK TO WINNIPEG!?! WHOO HOO! BACK WHERE THEY BELONG BABY!!!!