kipwinger

It was a good hit, and a bad call. Nuff said. Seems like every time a call gets blown there's always a bunch of people screaming referee conspiracy or the end of the game as we know it. The game's still physical and always will be, I don't think anyone actually believes that they didn't blow calls in years past.

Good on Big Bert. Can't wait to see Lidstrom hand him the cup first.

It seems pretty obvious that the article was written tongue in cheek. I take it as more of a compliment than anything.

He's a new member and probably wanted to get involved and start his own post. Why be a dick about it?

Also, the argument that you should trade a guy just because better players are on the trading block is dumb. Unless you have the best player in the world at every position, there is always a better player out there, which according to this rationale means you should always be trading...constantly...until somehow you create a dream team consisting of hybrids made from the DNA of Datsyuk, Weber, Rick Nash, and Lidstrom. But then you'd have to trade for a goalie. Saying that you should trade a guy for someone better means that the only two untouchable Wings are Lidstrom and Datsyuk and everybody else should be traded or considered trade bait. I'm sure they'd play real well with that hanging over their heads.

I'm really sort of flabbergasted. I never, in a million years, thought I'd ever be in a position where I'd have to defend Cleary against charges like these. I guess if you really, honestly, feel this way about Cleary then you win. There is probably no reasoning with you, as your viewpoint is obviously extreme to the point of absurdity. So you just win. Cleary is a worthless, pathetic, non-player who has only made the team through sheer happenstance, and should be regarded as an aberration who fluked his way onto an NHL team when a washing machine is worth more to that same team. He is most definitely not a solid third line Winger with average offensive ability and situational value. Most definitely not that. You win. And your argument is perfectly reasonable too.

I'm sorry, I'm must be having trouble seeing, because it looks to me like the big tough Blues have pissy pants when the Wings hit too hard.

Well reports from Khan at Mlive.com suggest the Wings are interested in trading for a top 6 winger and a bottom 6 grit guy. Doesn't specify if the bottom 6 guy will be a center or not, but considering Emmerton's limitations it's not unrealistic to think that's where the addition would come in to play. Also, I agree with pretty much everyone's frustration about Abby's lack of production, but as he plays good defense, finishes his checks, and has good size, I think he's a valuable asset for any playoff bound team. When the games become tighter, guys like Abby increase in utility.

ESPN is reporting today that the going rate for Bobby Ryan is two top prospects and a top pick. A few weeks ago they wanted roster players for roster players. I'm still not sure EXACTLY what it's going to take to land him but considering he's young, proven, and under contract, I don't know why the Wings wouldn't take a long hard look at him and try to make something happen if the new ESPN report is accurate.

Why would they move Bertuzzi down?

Danny Briere just got a concussion, wonder if we'll see any stories in print about his doctor's appointment? Like a few others have said, who gives a s*** about this guy's doctor visits?

I love how Eddie O claims that the Semin hit was both late and "up high" when in reality it was neither. Even when the Blackhawks aren't playing he's a fanboy.

That's a pretty weak slew foot. Have a look at this one, which is coincidentally the same moment I realized Dan Boyle is a gutless piece of trash. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y_L2iR7VZA

I think he'd need some teeth in order to accomplish that.

Well done, as usual.

So here's the conclusion of the article which supposedly "does against" those people who disagree with you: CONCLUSION: Overall these results suggest that fighting by itself does not significantly help a team score more goals or win more games, but it can often increase short-term momentum (i.e. the RATE at which they are getting shots) for one or both teams. Statistically speaking, if fights happen randomly it will take about 60 fights to equal one win, but if their timing is managed by the coach it could take as few as 30 fights to equal one win. PowerScout has uncovered many other factors that can provide a much greater contribution to winning than fighting, such as having a good penalty killing unit. So, who's the one disregarding contradictory evidence again? I'm confused.

I agree, but you're talking about some of the biggest and hardest hitters in the league...I'm not comparing Eaves to Clutterbuck and Clowe, I'm comparing him to Malty, who was an effective fourth line grinder without being the biggest or baddest dude in the league. My whole argument was that our bottom six is no less physical than it was in our hey day. Yes, Clowe and Clutterbuck are big, tough dudes...and yes, San Jose and Minnesota are both more physical teams than Detroit, but it doesn't seem to have brought them any more success than we've had...in fact, less so. This whole debate began with the assertion that Detroit is too soft to be successful in the playoffs, and that when they've had success in the playoffs it was because we were tougher, or grittier, or something...which I think is a baseless argument made by people who just happen to prefer a more physical game, regardless of its efficiency.

I've already shown you video evidence of the types of hits Eaves throws (obviously not every hit is big, but nobody can boast that), however it's inaccurate to say that he never throws big hits. Secondly, isn't throwing a whole bunch of little hits, but doing it all the time, sort of a cornerstone of the "grinding" concept we're all so fond of?

Find a stat board, look at Maltby's hits per season and compare it to Eaves'.

Look I think there's plenty of room for this team to improve, but on nights like tonight when the team has no jump, it is not some sort of omen. The guys just played like s***, for whatever variety of reasons, certainly it's no indication of how they'll do in the playoffs, and no indication of how good we are. If you want to go through and nit pick the worst games we've played all season and hold those under a microscope fine, but I could do the same with the first Vancouver game, the Boston, Pittsburgh, and most recent Chicago games and say that we're world beaters who can't lose to even the best teams. Let's hold off on the reactionary talk and call this game what it was...a really bad GAME.

How nice, you're playing second banana to a guy who claims Kirk Maltby is a "wrecking ball". I said Eaves and Miller where as tough as Draper and Maltby...he disagreed and said Drapes and Maltby were tougher and provided two videos of Maltby hitting hard to prove it. I responded by showing that Eaves hits, as well as fights (something Maltby rarely did), just as much as Maltby ever did. Obviously Miller hits and fights less than Eaves or Maltby, guess who else does...DRAPER...which was my original point in the first place. I'll say it again 'DRAPER AND MALTBY ARE NOT MORE PHYSICAL THAN EAVES AND MILLER!" If I can show, with video, that Eaves hits big and fights as much as Maltby, and neither Draper or Miller do either of those things...then the point is made. So that's how the debate went with the other guy, that's what we were talking about...where did you come in again? That's right, you came in right at the end...without reading much of the thread, obviously...in order to make some sort of snarky comment about how I must not have watched as much hockey as you clearly must have because if I had I'd have noticed that Maltby was a "big hitter", which is too stupid to be anything but laughable. Konstantinov was a big hitter, Kronwall is a big hitter, Stuart is a big hitter, Scott Stevens is a big hitter...Maltby...um...a big...oh that's right, Maltby was a fourth line grinder who finished his checks. It's amazing that in an attempt to make a wrong headed point, you and the other guy have made Maltby into a "wrecking ball" and a "big hitter". Something nobody...ever...aside from the two of you clowns, has ever considered him-before, during, or since the beginning of his career.

Ok, let me make this painfully obvious to you...my original comments, oh so long ago, were that our bottom six was already gritty and tough enough. Additionally, I pointed out that even back in the hey day of the late 90's and early 2000's, there were guys on the bottom six who aren't known for being tough guys...e.g. Draper, Maltby. They were definitely gritty...but so are Eaves and Miller and many of the guys on our team now. You claimed that Maltby was a "wrecking ball" back then, scoffed at the idea that our guys now have any kind of toughness, and used two pathetic videos to prove your point. In response, I showed that if hitting guys hard, blocking shots, and fighting videos are what you consider tough...then Eaves (at least) still fits the bill. And I was only ever saying that he was (at least) as tough a Maltby. There were other guys then, and now, tougher than both of them. So now we're at a bit of a quandry because I've shown you that if Maltby is a big tough guy for hitting hard, then Eaves is too...for the same reason...with video evidence. We both agreed that neither Draper nor Miller play a really hard nosed physical game on ice, but considering they both killed penalties, block shots, etc. I think in the toughness category...it's sort of a wash. Now if you want to suggest that a team with the remaining bottom six of Lapointe, McCarty, Deveroux, or Kocur. from the hey day is a better bottom six, I'd disagree, but understand that it's your preference. But if you want to say that a bottom six with those guys, plus draper and maltby, is far and away more physical...and therefore more likely to win championships then you're absurd.

Agreed on all points.

Can you give me a couple of names, just so I know what type of "ornery" player you're looking for here? Jordin Tootoo? Dan Carcillo?

So you found two youtube clips and now Maltby is a "wrecking ball"? And I'm out of touch? Pretty sure Maltby was an annoying, in your face, pestering type defensive forward...that...or a "total wrecking ball" dude! Look, I'm as big of a homer as anybody here, but to suggest that Maltby and Drapes were much (or any) more physical than Miller and Eaves is kind of a stretch. I find it humorous that in the quest to justify the myth that finesse teams can't cups, Maltby is turned into a "wrecking ball", Miller and Eaves become soft little ******* who don't finish checks, block shots, or kill penalties worth a damn, and guys like Downey, May, and Drake become contributing He-men. But just for fun's sake... here's Eaves destroying a guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnuPWBiAyqM here's Eaves destroying a guy and then fighting 15 seconds later...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wW1QRqBLLc here's Eaves blocking a shot and crawling off the ice to avoid a stoppage in play...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQGT1fVgd_I here's Eaves destroying another guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otKFZjSHCg8 here's Eaves fighting another guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um7KGKmFf8Q here's Eaves destroying another guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgQ_CcEfYg8 here's Eaves destroying another guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otuHLZHATdM Holy s*** dude, by your rationale Eaves should be considered, at the very least, a "wrecking ball" and at most the greatest physical presence the league has ever know. Should I spend five seconds on youtube finding Miller lighting people up too, or can you inwardly recognize that a) Miller and Eaves are as physical as Maltby and Draper, b) none of the four of them were "wrecking balls" and didn't really need to be to play an effective game? I guess the big difference is that after the Maltby hits in your videos there was a scrum (no fights) and then the Wings returned to the bench, while after the Eaves hits in my videos there were scrums (no fights) and the Wings returned to the bench. Man is this year's team soft.