kipwinger

Given all of our pressing needs on defense and how much we're going to have to pay for those, if the Wings sign Brad Richards to the (ungoldly) contract he's going to sign somewhere, I'll probably throw up. Also, I'll probably start assuming that Ken Holland and Jimmy D have been replaced by some sort of pod people genetically engineered in a laboratory by Glen Sather.

I voted 2-3million. Do I think he was worth that last year? No. Would I re-sign him to something like that if he keeps up his s***? No. Was it unreasonable to give him that contract after his last full season with the Wings and before his fiasco in Russia? No. Do I love asking myself questions and then answering my questions with one word answers or other question? Does the pope s*** in the woods?

Also he is saying "sign whoever because Brad Stuart is clearly not good enough to play in our top four"...even thought Mike Babcock has consistently said he's our best stay at home defenseman, and one of the steadiest in the league. I doubt he'd take a million dollar pay cut. He's taken pay cuts in the past but considering this is his last year (probably) and considering what he means to the organization, I doubt they'd ask him to take anything less than 6 million dollars for one year.

The whole reason the Wings signed Salei last year was because neither Meech nor Janik were good enough to play day in and day out consistently. Up until last year Kindl had never played in any NHL games and did quite well (for a sixth or seventh defenseman) when he had the opportunity. If Meech or Janik were capable of doing that then they wouldn't have signed Salei, and Mike Babcock wouldn't be talking about signing a top six forward and TWO defenseman if they don't re-sign Ericsson. Anybody who thinks Meech or Janik can take over Salei or Ericsson's spot, let alone Rafalski's role need only ask themselves why that didn't happen last year, before the Salei signing. Unless you think that either Meech or Janik vastly improved their game last year with Grand Rapids, in which case I'd have to wonder which games you were watching because I'm fairly sure Janik played only seven games with the Wings and Meech played less than that (maybe none at all, I can't exactly remember).

I'm not sure why you're married to this Pitkanan idea. He already makes a million dollars more than Wiz, Erhoff, or Bieksa (and will cost more to sign) but with similar numbers, he shoots left and we need a right handed shot to replace Rafalski on the powerplay, and like Ericsson, he's real big but doesn't play physical or impose on anyone with his size. I'd pass.

Just a little something interesting to look at when trying to determine how much Laich is worth... Since 2005-2006 season: Laich: 470 games played, 100 goals, 136 assists, 236 pts., +14...salary 2.4 million. Franzen: 395 games played, 121 goals, 98 assists, 219 pts., +63...salary 5 million. Also, here's Cleary's career numbers since 1997-1998 Cleary: 746 games played, 139 goals, 190 assists, 329 pts., +25...salary 3 million I'm not sure whether who is over valued, who is undervalued, or who's a little bit of both. But with those numbers it's not unreasonable that Laich will get paid 4-5 million and be worth the money. And before anyone suggests that Laich's numbers are inflated because of Washington's "high powered" offense, there's this...since, 2005-2006, Washington has only once had more "Goals For" than Detroit has. Here's a link to back up my statement...http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/stats/byteam?cat=teamstats&cut_type=0&sort=404&conference=NHL&year=season_2005

Yeah, you're dead on. First choice, Laich. Alternative in Cole, and a top four d-man and we're all set. We've got the money and the core, I think this should be a no brainer for the management.

Still, whoever you get has to be top four quality, with good offensive skill, can play the point on the PP, and can play about 22-23 minutes a night because that's what you lost in Rafalski. Anything else and you haven't gained anything. There are four or five guys out there right now that can do that, but we're going to have to pay a good amount for them.

You don't replace a top four defenseman with a reclaimation project. Established defenseman take the place of established defenseman. You take the risks on your sixth or if your team carried seven, then your seventh defenseman. We're going to have to spend money on defense folks.

Yes to Cole, no to Pitkanen, and Jiri Hudler isn't a checker or a very good skater for that matter. Might as well re-sign Miller and figure out something else with Jiri, he doesn't belong on the fourth line.

I agree with almost all of what you've said. But let's be honest, it's pretty much a given that we'll make the playoffs again next year, and look at the quality forwards (skill and size) and the top six of any other Western Conference playoff worthy team. It's still a mismatch any way you cut it. When the games matter as much as they do in the playoffs, I'm not willing to give Jiri the opportunity to play defense against REALLY good forwards. His -6 this season against third liners has already shown us that he's not capable. In his career he's been negative or zero in plus minus as often as he's been positive, and like I said, that's against third liners. You have to be able to play both ways to be a top six forward, not just score the points. At least on this team anyway.

I don't think Hudler is a bad player, but he's not worth his contract at his current production level and in order to elevate his point production you'd have to put him on one of the top two lines, but he doesn't have the skill set to match up well or defend against other teams' top six forwards. He can't play higher than the third line because he can't defend, so he's stuck no higher than the third. Unless he starts producing from there then he isn't worth the money he's paid and needs to go.

I agree with what you're saying here, but I still don't like the idea of Hudler seeing those kinds of minutes. Sure he would have more points, but he'd also be responsible for defending top six forwards from other teams and I don't think he's got the skill set to do that. Nevermind the big power forwards, I don't think he could manage defending guys like Kane, Sharp, etc. I'd like to see Hudler go but it's not because he's a terrible player, he's a decent player, but he's realistically not ever going to be in your top six consistently (if for no other reason than he can't match up) and he makes too much money to be floundering around on the third line with marginal production. Incidently, there's a lot of responsibility for his floundering which rests on his shoulders alone. Eaves and Miller both had as good or better years than Hudler without the ice time or the games played...and those guys never had the benefit of playing consistently with Filpula, Franzen, Cleary, Z, or Datsyuk. End of the day, I wouldn't be sad to see him go, but if he stays, he better earn that three million dollar contract...fast.

Good point...and history has shown that team is more than willing to invest a lot of money in questionable hockey players. HUDLER TO THE RANGERS IN 2011-2012!!!!

I completely agree with you, Babcock has already said that they need a top six forward and a top four defenseman to be competitive with the top tier teams and they have the money to spend to do it. I don't think that they will spend their money foolishly (at least I hope they don't) but I do think that they aren't likely to lose out on the only quality free agents out there because they were out bid. Additionally, I don't see any team in the cap era giving Wisniewski five million or above...yet. He could always improve and he'd have to improve to earn a million and a half to two million dollar raise over his last contract. Few competitive teams are going to have the kind of cap room that Detroit will this year, and I don't see a guy like Wisniewski, who's been so close to a championship with Chicago and Anaheim, going to some garbage team for the money.

I see what you mean here but I don't agree. There is, of course always, a chance that aggressive defensemen will face injury issues and you're right to think that. I just disagree with anyone that said Wiz is small. He isn't small, he's short, big difference. He comes in right around 210 lbs. and he's 5 ft. 11 inches. For some perspective, that's about the same size as Ruslan Salei. Bigger, than Rafalski, Lidstrom, Kronwall. Heavier than Kindl. Five pounds lighter than Stuart and ten pounds lighter than Ericsson. Just an aside, it also makes him five pounds lighter than Scott Stevens and much bigger than Vladamir Konstantinov or Ken Daneyko. I don't care if he's not 6'3 and 220-230 lbs. At 5'11 and 210, if he plays strong and with an edge, he's worth every bit of 4-4.5 mil we'd have to give him.

This is not all that uncommon, look at the Wings roster and see how many guys are listed at center and who play the wing day in and day out. Laich has been hovering right around a 20 goal average for the last three years now, while playing on the left wing, not the center. He is very much like a version of Dan Cleary, with about the same offensive touch, but his size and good speed make him more dangerous because you can essentially put him on any of your top three lines and he can hold his own AND in many cases, force the defense to take him seriously and match up against him. That frees up a lot of ice for other wingers not used to getting the advantage of mismatches. He makes 2.4 million now. I'd pay up to 4 million for him and be a happy guy to do so. NOW, can anybody think of a way to dumb Hudler's contract if we get a top six forward? Is any team in the league in the market for a tiny dude, with below average speed, but above average shot and puck handling? I doubt it.

Not that they don't get treated well, but that when they go on long road trips it's a lot of miles, in a lot of cities, a long way from home. Living out of hotels and planes and buses, away from families for long(er) periods of time than they would be if they were in the East. That has traditionally been one of the arguments for going into the Eastern Conference. I wasn't saying that at the end of the analysis I agree and think the Wings should go East, but just that I understand the argument. You're right though, this is a professional sports team, they are accomodated wonderfully I'm sure.

You're right about point production but he's a -14 on the season (-18 with the s***ty Islander I know), and at his best he's not a franchise defenseman. I don't see him making that kind of money in the salary cap world. That said, I've seen the New York Rangers do dumber s*** so you may be right. I'm thinking 4.5 tops, and a steal at 4. You bring up an interesting point though and stranger things have happened.

Agreed. I'm certainly not opposed to a little dirty play when it's on our side. Chelios did it, Pronger does it. It's the name of the game sometimes and it keeps opposing players guessing. Let Datsyuk be the gentleman, let the Wiz make people pay a price.

This is why I'm saying it's important to know what role he's going to be filling. The tendency is to want whatever guy that's coming in to be in your top pair, which he won't be. Compare everything above to Rafalski over the last two years and you have a guy who's scored more points, is younger, and plays about the same amount of ice time, and is much more aggressive, but who may turn the puck over or get beat on defense. Gotta remember that Rafalski was among the team leaders in turnovers and didn't have the legs to play good D anymore so was often getting beat. Essentially you've got a guy who has most of the same flaws as Rafalski has had for a couple of seasons now but is bigger, younger, faster, and tougher, and you can get for a couple million dollars cheaper, but still gives you Rafalski level points and plays the same role as Rafalski on the PP. He doesn't have to be Nic, or Kronwall, or Stuart, he just has to be better than Rafalski was for less money and you've come out ahead. I think he is, and I think it's a no brainer...unless Bieksa is coming in around the same money haha (he'll get paid more though), then all bets are off.

I completely agree, as a matter of fact, a total dick might just be what this team needs. A little attitude or spark or something. I know it's a different game but this is exactly why the Pistons brought in Rasheed Wallace years back, his attitude supposedly kept the more passive guys from being complacent. But all that aside, the Wiz is a hell of a hockey player for the money and we absolutely must sign a top four d-man for mid range salary, there aren't many options aside from him, Bieksa, and Erhoff with that skill level and for that salary. I still like it, d-bag or not haha.

Jesus Mr. Literal, the point was that it's not good to play a steady schedule of lower quality teams and then try to make a playoff run. Switch Altanta with Toronto if it will help avoid further nit picking.

That's a bummer. Where did you find that info, I've never heard it?

You're absolutely right to have that concern. But for me the issue isn't whether or not he'll have huge numbers, realistically, if he had 20-25 per season I'd be thrilled. That's what they were hoping for from Hudler actually. Basically, I wouldn't want or need him to shoulder a huge offensive load, just enough that you have options for mixing and matching lines, and providing scoring depth through three lines by being able to (above) adequately fill several roles in the top two or three lines, something like Jordan Staal or Ryane Clowe do for their respective teams. For instance, if you had him on the second line opposite Franzen, that would leave Cleary and Bertuzzi on the third which is big advantage for us because most teams don't have the defensive depth to cover three solid lines. Plus then you don't have guys like Hudler and Miller or Eaves having to go nose to nose this guys like Pavelski, Staal, Clowe, Couture, etc. Like I said, it's a good solid depth move in my opinion.