kipwinger

Yeah, you're dead on. First choice, Laich. Alternative in Cole, and a top four d-man and we're all set. We've got the money and the core, I think this should be a no brainer for the management.

Still, whoever you get has to be top four quality, with good offensive skill, can play the point on the PP, and can play about 22-23 minutes a night because that's what you lost in Rafalski. Anything else and you haven't gained anything. There are four or five guys out there right now that can do that, but we're going to have to pay a good amount for them.

You don't replace a top four defenseman with a reclaimation project. Established defenseman take the place of established defenseman. You take the risks on your sixth or if your team carried seven, then your seventh defenseman. We're going to have to spend money on defense folks.

Yes to Cole, no to Pitkanen, and Jiri Hudler isn't a checker or a very good skater for that matter. Might as well re-sign Miller and figure out something else with Jiri, he doesn't belong on the fourth line.

I agree with almost all of what you've said. But let's be honest, it's pretty much a given that we'll make the playoffs again next year, and look at the quality forwards (skill and size) and the top six of any other Western Conference playoff worthy team. It's still a mismatch any way you cut it. When the games matter as much as they do in the playoffs, I'm not willing to give Jiri the opportunity to play defense against REALLY good forwards. His -6 this season against third liners has already shown us that he's not capable. In his career he's been negative or zero in plus minus as often as he's been positive, and like I said, that's against third liners. You have to be able to play both ways to be a top six forward, not just score the points. At least on this team anyway.

I don't think Hudler is a bad player, but he's not worth his contract at his current production level and in order to elevate his point production you'd have to put him on one of the top two lines, but he doesn't have the skill set to match up well or defend against other teams' top six forwards. He can't play higher than the third line because he can't defend, so he's stuck no higher than the third. Unless he starts producing from there then he isn't worth the money he's paid and needs to go.

I agree with what you're saying here, but I still don't like the idea of Hudler seeing those kinds of minutes. Sure he would have more points, but he'd also be responsible for defending top six forwards from other teams and I don't think he's got the skill set to do that. Nevermind the big power forwards, I don't think he could manage defending guys like Kane, Sharp, etc. I'd like to see Hudler go but it's not because he's a terrible player, he's a decent player, but he's realistically not ever going to be in your top six consistently (if for no other reason than he can't match up) and he makes too much money to be floundering around on the third line with marginal production. Incidently, there's a lot of responsibility for his floundering which rests on his shoulders alone. Eaves and Miller both had as good or better years than Hudler without the ice time or the games played...and those guys never had the benefit of playing consistently with Filpula, Franzen, Cleary, Z, or Datsyuk. End of the day, I wouldn't be sad to see him go, but if he stays, he better earn that three million dollar contract...fast.

Good point...and history has shown that team is more than willing to invest a lot of money in questionable hockey players. HUDLER TO THE RANGERS IN 2011-2012!!!!

I completely agree with you, Babcock has already said that they need a top six forward and a top four defenseman to be competitive with the top tier teams and they have the money to spend to do it. I don't think that they will spend their money foolishly (at least I hope they don't) but I do think that they aren't likely to lose out on the only quality free agents out there because they were out bid. Additionally, I don't see any team in the cap era giving Wisniewski five million or above...yet. He could always improve and he'd have to improve to earn a million and a half to two million dollar raise over his last contract. Few competitive teams are going to have the kind of cap room that Detroit will this year, and I don't see a guy like Wisniewski, who's been so close to a championship with Chicago and Anaheim, going to some garbage team for the money.

I see what you mean here but I don't agree. There is, of course always, a chance that aggressive defensemen will face injury issues and you're right to think that. I just disagree with anyone that said Wiz is small. He isn't small, he's short, big difference. He comes in right around 210 lbs. and he's 5 ft. 11 inches. For some perspective, that's about the same size as Ruslan Salei. Bigger, than Rafalski, Lidstrom, Kronwall. Heavier than Kindl. Five pounds lighter than Stuart and ten pounds lighter than Ericsson. Just an aside, it also makes him five pounds lighter than Scott Stevens and much bigger than Vladamir Konstantinov or Ken Daneyko. I don't care if he's not 6'3 and 220-230 lbs. At 5'11 and 210, if he plays strong and with an edge, he's worth every bit of 4-4.5 mil we'd have to give him.

This is not all that uncommon, look at the Wings roster and see how many guys are listed at center and who play the wing day in and day out. Laich has been hovering right around a 20 goal average for the last three years now, while playing on the left wing, not the center. He is very much like a version of Dan Cleary, with about the same offensive touch, but his size and good speed make him more dangerous because you can essentially put him on any of your top three lines and he can hold his own AND in many cases, force the defense to take him seriously and match up against him. That frees up a lot of ice for other wingers not used to getting the advantage of mismatches. He makes 2.4 million now. I'd pay up to 4 million for him and be a happy guy to do so. NOW, can anybody think of a way to dumb Hudler's contract if we get a top six forward? Is any team in the league in the market for a tiny dude, with below average speed, but above average shot and puck handling? I doubt it.

Not that they don't get treated well, but that when they go on long road trips it's a lot of miles, in a lot of cities, a long way from home. Living out of hotels and planes and buses, away from families for long(er) periods of time than they would be if they were in the East. That has traditionally been one of the arguments for going into the Eastern Conference. I wasn't saying that at the end of the analysis I agree and think the Wings should go East, but just that I understand the argument. You're right though, this is a professional sports team, they are accomodated wonderfully I'm sure.

You're right about point production but he's a -14 on the season (-18 with the s***ty Islander I know), and at his best he's not a franchise defenseman. I don't see him making that kind of money in the salary cap world. That said, I've seen the New York Rangers do dumber s*** so you may be right. I'm thinking 4.5 tops, and a steal at 4. You bring up an interesting point though and stranger things have happened.

Agreed. I'm certainly not opposed to a little dirty play when it's on our side. Chelios did it, Pronger does it. It's the name of the game sometimes and it keeps opposing players guessing. Let Datsyuk be the gentleman, let the Wiz make people pay a price.

This is why I'm saying it's important to know what role he's going to be filling. The tendency is to want whatever guy that's coming in to be in your top pair, which he won't be. Compare everything above to Rafalski over the last two years and you have a guy who's scored more points, is younger, and plays about the same amount of ice time, and is much more aggressive, but who may turn the puck over or get beat on defense. Gotta remember that Rafalski was among the team leaders in turnovers and didn't have the legs to play good D anymore so was often getting beat. Essentially you've got a guy who has most of the same flaws as Rafalski has had for a couple of seasons now but is bigger, younger, faster, and tougher, and you can get for a couple million dollars cheaper, but still gives you Rafalski level points and plays the same role as Rafalski on the PP. He doesn't have to be Nic, or Kronwall, or Stuart, he just has to be better than Rafalski was for less money and you've come out ahead. I think he is, and I think it's a no brainer...unless Bieksa is coming in around the same money haha (he'll get paid more though), then all bets are off.

I completely agree, as a matter of fact, a total dick might just be what this team needs. A little attitude or spark or something. I know it's a different game but this is exactly why the Pistons brought in Rasheed Wallace years back, his attitude supposedly kept the more passive guys from being complacent. But all that aside, the Wiz is a hell of a hockey player for the money and we absolutely must sign a top four d-man for mid range salary, there aren't many options aside from him, Bieksa, and Erhoff with that skill level and for that salary. I still like it, d-bag or not haha.

Jesus Mr. Literal, the point was that it's not good to play a steady schedule of lower quality teams and then try to make a playoff run. Switch Altanta with Toronto if it will help avoid further nit picking.

That's a bummer. Where did you find that info, I've never heard it?

You're absolutely right to have that concern. But for me the issue isn't whether or not he'll have huge numbers, realistically, if he had 20-25 per season I'd be thrilled. That's what they were hoping for from Hudler actually. Basically, I wouldn't want or need him to shoulder a huge offensive load, just enough that you have options for mixing and matching lines, and providing scoring depth through three lines by being able to (above) adequately fill several roles in the top two or three lines, something like Jordan Staal or Ryane Clowe do for their respective teams. For instance, if you had him on the second line opposite Franzen, that would leave Cleary and Bertuzzi on the third which is big advantage for us because most teams don't have the defensive depth to cover three solid lines. Plus then you don't have guys like Hudler and Miller or Eaves having to go nose to nose this guys like Pavelski, Staal, Clowe, Couture, etc. Like I said, it's a good solid depth move in my opinion.

I don't see them signing anyone older than 32-33 and I definitely don't see them signing anyone to one year contracts considering the pieces they need aren't really role pieces but core guys (top four defensman and top six forward). Look to Bieksa, Erhoff, and Wisniewski on D, and I really don't know about the forwards, not much out there...hopefully, Brooks Laich.

I agree with both of the last two posts, and so does the vast majority of sports writers who are all saying "west is best". You don't get ready for the playoffs against the Atlanta's, Florida's, or even Ottawa's of the league.

Yeah but I mean the Wings have play makers every bit as good as the Capitals and have been near the tops of the league in "goals for" for several years, so it's not like he'd be going from and offensive team like Washington to Nashville or something. He'd still have real good offensive numbers if Miller's ten goals and Eave's 13 are any indication.

I haven't read this whole discussion so maybe some agree with me on this, but I doubt it. I'm one of the few people who doesn't like a move to the East. People justifiably worry about the wear and tear and travel time for the Wings during the regular season, but I think it actually serves them well in the playoffs when there's no way to avoid a gruelling schedule. For the Wings to be successful in the Western conference means they absolutely must be successful on the road, and that is exactly the same in the playoffs no matter what conference you're in. Over the last decade the Wings have been hockey's most successful organization, regular and post season, and I really feel like the fact that we MUST win on the road and DO win on the road is a huge part of that success. I think teams in the East are often unprepared for the gruel of the playoffs because they don't have much of a taste of it throughout the season. If I had a vote, I'd say Columbus to the East, Minnesota into the central division west.

Yeah I completely agree, don't break the bank for him. But I like the depth a guy like that would provide, in addition to the toughness and size. The only issue would be that signing another forward means that either Eaves, Miller, or Hudler doesn't have a spot. I like Eaves and Miller on the fourth line with Helm, and I really wouldn't mind seeing them dump Hudler's contract (I was one of the many who thought bringing him back was a terrible idea...especially at 3 million) but would anyone take him? Or would we have to continue to sit guys like Eaves and Miller who did more with less (and for less) than Jiri?

I'm not going to lie, I'm unfamiliar with Babchuk's game. All I know about him is from what I'm reading online right now. My biggest two concerns with him would be 1. He only averages 16 minutes time on ice, and if you were playing in the top two defensive pairings for Detroit you'd need to be coming in at around 22-23 minutes. Is he capable and quality enough to take on the bigger role at this stage of his career? 2. Again, not familiar with his game, but ideally I'd like to see Rafalski's replacement play a little grittier, with more of an edge. It's not necessarily a matter of size, but of playing big and being able to compete physically with big power forwards. Sort of like Stuart does. Now here's my bias, I generally think North American defenseman are more prone to this as I believe European defenseman tend to play a more positional style of defense. How is he with physical play? Note: I just reread the previous post and realized you were talking about replacing Ericsson with Babchuk, which sort of negates the two concerns I just brought up. I thought you meant as a replacement for Rafalski. Interesting idea given this Ericsson situation.