kipwinger

The Datsyuk number retirement opinions around here are weird in light of the Vernon/Osgood Hall of Fame debate. Amongst Red Wings players Datsyuk is not top 5 in points, goals, or assists. Zetterberg, for example, is better than Datsyuk in all three categories. Plus he was the Captain, and a Conn Smythe winner, and he didn't bail on the team (and stick them with his cap hit) a year early to go play professionally in another league. He's more deserving in more or less every respect. Except one. Datsyuk was showier, and therefore more popular. Yet it seems like many fans think Dats is a no-brainer while Zetterberg is an after thought.

Meh. He’d get my vote.

I bet a lot of Wings and Flames fans do. He brought Calgary their only Cup and he beat up Roy in Detroit. The guy is a legend to a lot of people.

How many other goalies A) had better careers, B) won two Cups, C) was a central part of the most famous brawl in NHL history? The Hall of Fame is not the Vezina Trophy. One if for the best goalie in any given year, which is more or less what you're describing. One is for famous players. At no point in his career should Mike Vernon have won the Vezina Trophy, but he absolutely should be in the HoF.

Smooth move by Colorado trading Alex Galcheyuk to Nashville for Ryan Johansen. I've always really liked Johansen as a defensively competent 2C who can contribute offense and take on hard matchups. This should really help free up MacKinnon. The fact that they got Nashville to retain 50% of the contract is huge too. Very smart trade.

Shoutout to Netflix for making a "Malice at the Palace" documentary. As a Michigander I will never get tired of watching the Pacers act like b*tches.

Agreed, but who gives a sh*t? It’s still a lesser accomplishment than backstopping your team to a Cup. I think it’s fine to let some guys in for their individual regular season performances. For some guys (Price, Luongo, Lundqvist, etc.) that’s all they have to show for their decades long careers. But for other guys, like Vernon or Osgood, being an integral part of multiple championship teams (along with relatively great stats) is also reason enough to get in. I don’t think there’s a blueprint for letting guys in the Hall.

Really??? I had no idea. I would argue that backstopping your team to several championships and getting the associated "hardware" is a greater feat than winning a Vezina Trophy (which I'd argue is also a team award). There is no greater way for a goalie to earn "fame" than to come up big in the playoffs. Why do I think so? I guess I'd wager than guys like Price, Luongo, Lundqvist, etc. would gladly trade in all their Vezinas for a chance to lift the Cup. Likewise when Bobrovsky looks back on his career I doubt he'll regret the lack of individual awards as much as he'll regret his performance in the Cup finals this year. I think individual awards simply matter less. Certainly to me, but also to the players themselves, and (if Vernon's inclusion in the Hall is any indication) to the Hall inclusion committee and voters as well.

That's kinda my point. Certain segments of the fan base (and media) are going to complain about anything and everything. The self righteousness that permeates sports is over the top. I think leagues are figuring out that the success of their product is not dependent on pandering (or not pandering) to certain segments of the population. Take the NFL for example. The kneeling during the anthem thing pretty much evenly split the fan base right? But guess what didn't happen. NOBODY stopped watching the games or buying the merch. The UFC figured out the same thing a long time ago too. Dana White openly mocks media and internet commenters and his product has never been more successful. There's nothing that will make these people happy so why try?

Players should never have been asked to wear ANY other jerseys in the first place. If teams want to have promotional events they absolutely should, but I think it's a bridge too far to expect players to be billboards for any particular cause without them pushing back. Everybody with any real decision making power did (Bettman, GMs, Owners). The only people that had a problem with it are random people in media and on the internet, and I think the world is starting to figure out that those people don't matter, don't have any real power, and don't really like anything at all. The "I love hockey but all I do is complain about it" crowd has sorta jumped the shark I think.

All awards are team awards, it's a team sport.

No greater hardware than the three Stanley Cup rings Osgood has on his mantle.

Good point. I don't think enough is made of the fact that the Winnipeg Jets should never have been brought back to Winnipeg. Atlanta should have relocated elsewhere. Nobody wants to play in Winnipeg. I know, I'm being a d*ck.

Me too. Those "Law Enforcement" and "First Responder" appreciation nights were hugely popular. It's too bad the NHL caved and decided to cancel them too.

Cancel culture is getting out of control. First they canceled The Dixie Chicks (twice), then they canceled Bud Light, and now they're canceling Pride Nights in the NHL. Special interests are ruining this country.

Let freedom ring.

What mods?

For almost as long as anyone can remember the mantra has always been that you need to have superstars to win Cups (in most cases they say you need to draft them too). We've all heard it. I still hear it on certain podcasts. But after watching Vegas (and to a lesser extent Florida) in the post season is it time to rethink this maxim? Is it better to have one or two superstars and then fill out the rest of the roster as you can, or is it better to have a handful of really good, but not elite, players and use the financial savings to ensure that you don't have any replacement level players on your lower lines? We probably all can agree on who the "superstar" players are, more or less, and with the exception of Tkachuk (who nobody would have called a superstar two years ago), all of those guys got beaten soundly by deeper teams. Is it just an anomaly or is there something to it?

At this point we don't, most likely. The ONLY chance we have is to pull a Tampa and luck out drafting guys like Point and Kucherov in later rounds and have them exceed expectations, which is a really long shot considering how good teams are at evaluating talent now. The good news is that Yzerman/Draper seems like a winning combination when it comes to drafting and developing so if anyone were going to do it then it's probably them.

Eichel was on another level in the playoffs for sure, but all season long Vegas fans were complaining about what a disappointment he was. Ended up having a very similar season to Larkin, despite being on a top team. I think he's a star player for sure, but when I think "superstar" I'm thinking the top 3 to 5 players at their position. I don't really see that on Vegas' team.

People always knock Osgood by saying "he played behind a dynasty team" but I think that's even more true of Smith and Fuhr and nobody seems to think they don't belong in the HoF

Does Vegas have "superstars" in your mind? Because I'd argue that they don't really have any truly elite talent.

That's code for "we're hedging our bets because the goalie market is thin". He'll bring one or the other back on a short term deal if he can't land one of the few marginally better options in FA. I'd be bummed to see either of them in net next season but we may not have many other options.

Good on Vernon. I think he deserves to be in. People forget that it's the Hall of FAME and not the Hall of Really Great Careers. As the starting goalie for two very memorable Cup runs, plus the Roy fight, and a really solid career on top of that, I think he fits the bill.

Whether it's Debrincat or Konecny we really shouldn't spend many assets on wingers right now IMO. The reality is that this team is going nowhere until we have a 2C that can carry a line against top competition. NOBODY is game planning for a 2nd line centered by Andrew Copp. It's a testament to just how good Dylan Larkin is that he still produces near a point per game despite the fact that whatever line he's centering is the only line that can score. He is keyed on as much as any player in the league and he's still very good. But without someone else he's sunk, with or without any Debrincat or Konecny types. This has been a glaring weakness with this team for a decade and continues to be. It's good that we drafted Kasper, and I'm hopeful, but the range of outcomes for him could be Phillip Danault to Pierre Luc Dubois to anywhere in between. It doesn't matter who we sign or draft if we don't have a quality 2C we're not taking the next step.