kipwinger

Sooooo what’s Edmonton’s deal?

I don't give a single f*ck about the draft lottery. Good scouting > draft lottery every day of the week. We lost the draft lottery in 2019 and got the first/second best player in the draft when we took Seider. We lost the draft lottery in 2020 and got the second best player in the draft in Raymond. We lost the draft lottery in 2021 and got a defenseman that I think is just as good as the consensus #1 player drafted (Owen Power) when we took Edvinsson. We lost the draft lottery last year and got a comparably good pick to the consensus top picks (Shane Wright and Slafkovsky) when we picked Kasper. Obviously Bedard is supposed to be on a totally different level than those concensus top picks. But there are still some questions about him (whether or not the Canadian media wants to address them) that could lessen his projection at the NHL level. He'll obviously still be a top end player no doubt, but I'm incredibly skeptical that he's going to be a generational talent. He doesn't have elite size or skating to be in the realm of a McDavid, Draisait, MacKinnon, Matthews, or even a Jack Hughes. He's got a really good brain and a great shot, but his playmaking isn't that great (relative to elite NHL centers) and I think that suggests maybe he'll play on the wing at that level.

Thankfully this year's draft is loaded with quality forwards and we've got a bunch of picks. I agree that when we finally get around to winning Larkin isn't going to be "the guy" anymore. However, with that said I do think he'll still be a valuable piece. I've been beating this drum a lot lately, but it cannot be overemphasized how much young guys improve from 20-22 to 26-28. Their point totals aren't always that much different, but if they're coachable they're going to be massively better after they have 5 or so years of experience under their belt. Imagine if Seider was still a 50(ish) point defenseman is stronger, faster, and has more experience defending top guys effectively. Same for any of our young guys.

In general I agree with you. But I'm not putting Perron there over Raymond. Kubalik was on a heater for the first 20 game or so and most of that was with Larkin and Raymond. I'm not gonna cry about it either way, but Perron isn't good at 5on5 any more and I'd rather a quality even strength winger have that third spot on the top line.

It's way too early to tell, one way or another. If I were "convinced" the Wings would win a Cup with this team then the rebuild would more or less be over. But at the same time I'm not at all convinced that Kasper can't be as good as Matt Barzal, Edvinsson can't be as good as Jacob Slavin, and Mazur can't be as good as Tyler Bertuzzi ya know? Add that kind of talent to Larkin, Raymond, Seider, Ras, Walmn, Fabbri, Husso and you're starting to look at a very very competitive team. And that's without any outside additions and/or hitting on guys like Wallinder, Lombardi, Buchelnikov, Johansson, etc.

Offensively, there's no way that you can deny that having a healthy Bert and Vrana (and I'd add Fabbri too) to the lineup would not have significantly changed the outlook of the season. Paticularly when you remember how many games that guys like Luff and Czarnik and Zadina and Veleno and Erne played. Likewise, I think it's valid to note that the team played their asses off despite not icing anything close to it's best lineup and hung around the playoff picture (and even had a brief wildcard spot) without those guys in the lineup. If anything that seems to suggest we're closer than many folks think. With all that said, I think SY HAS to try and replace some of the lost offense in the offseason. Some of that is going to come from internal growth for sure. I expect better production from Kubalik, Fabbri, and Berggren next year for sure, along with the addition of Kasper. But if you can land a high-end offensive contributor like Debrincat I think you can't really sleep on the job. I think he would be particularly effective with Copp (who is an assist machine). Conversely, I think many of the team's defensive woes can be attributed to Lalonde. He kept Chiarot-Seider together way too long. He also broke up a Maatta-Hronek pairing that was REALLY effective and didn't let Maatta sniff the top four again until after the trade deadline. This is not a "hindsight" situation either. Both of those things were obviously to even casual fans at the time. If, hypothetically, we played 15(ish) more games with Walman-Sedier and Maatta-Hronek as the top four I think our fortunes would have been quite different as well. Because of our depth on defense I'm more okay standing pat or making smaller moves there. Maybe you don't replace Hronek's offense completely next year, but longer term you'd expect a defense that sees growth from Walman, Edvinsson promoted, and Chiarot playing on the right side(along with addition by subtraction via the losses of Hagg, Lindstrom) to match or eclipse this season's scoring but with better defensive results. So, offseason plan: -Trade for Debrincat, re-sign Suter -Sign Scott Mayfield Kubalik-Larkin-Raymond Ras-Copp-Debrincat Berggren-Kasper-Perron Fabbri-Veleno-Suter Zadina Walman-Seider Edvinsson-Mayfield Maatta-Chiarot Note: I highlighted Kubalik on the top line for two reasons. Ideally he's not a long term top line guy, but his scoring rates did increase dramatically when he played with Larkin, he's a legitimate shooting threat on that line opposite a better passer in Raymond, and because it would pump up his value prior to the trade deadline if things fall apart and we have to sell.

It's not that I have any reverence for Gretzky. I don't. He's ancient history. He's like the Pyramids. He's just a magnificent, old, thing that has lost its luster. Like the pyramids I barely even remember he exists. However, if someone came along and tried to build new pyramids that were bigger and taller it would tickle me to no end if they toppled over and sank into the sand instead. In short, everyone sucks except the Red Wings and Canadian prima donnas suck most of all.

I agree with the bolded, but would caution that dominating Europeans isn't really all that difficult. They seem to fall prey to a new autocrat every other decade or so.

I'd rather have Draisaitl. We've developing a pretty strong group of German speaking badasses here and I don't want to mess that up. Draisaitl, Seider, Kasper, and (soon) Reinbacher. Beware the Huns.

Prior to last season Bunting had only played 26 NHL games. I don't think it's a stretch to say he's still figuring out his game at the NHL level, irrespective of his age. But to be clear I'm not suggesting we throw a HUGE payday at the guy. Also, Zucker isn't a great example. He was just as productive in Minnesota as he was in Pittsburgh despite playing with a bunch of nobodies. See, I'm on the exact opposite end of the spectrum. I want them to waste McDavid and Draisaitl's primes. Think about it, who cares if McDavid wins a Cup? What's it going to change? There are people already saying he's better than Gretzky. Winning a Cup now adds nothing to his narrative. The Oilers losing with McDavid is FAR more interesting than them winning with him. I want him to be like Ray Bourque. I want to see an old McDavid have to ride the coattails of a "less talented" (but way better) team to his big Cup win when he's like 76 years old. THAT would be interesting at least.

Nah, they suck too. And why are you suddenly being nice to Canada? Cut that sh*t out. I still like Bunting. People forget he's a second year player. He's going to get better at being a "pest". He obviously cost his team last night, there's no sugar coating it. There are a lot of effective players who played the same type of game and had to learn to manage it as they matured. Every (valid) criticism of Bunting was also said of Marchand, Gallagher, Tkachuk, Kadri. But I like that he battles, isn't intimidated, draws a ton of penalties, and scores goals. Yzerman and Lalonde both identified adding scoring and toughness as priorities in the offseason. Bunting provides both irrespective of how annoying he is. You just have to be sure that you've got a quality leadership group that can help him figure out how to manage it.

I'm confused, are you guys telling me that it's NOT a good idea to spend so much on your top six forward group that you have to ice replacement level guys for the remainder of your lineup?

Sooooo is Toronto’s plan to goon it up against the Lightening and make the whole series a contest between Tampa’s powerplay and Toronto’s goaltending lol? Good luck with that.

My bad, I see what you're saying. I'm not really worried about the asking price TBH. Dorian HAS to trade him this offseason or qualify him (@9million). And since he DEFINITELY doesn't want to qualify him, then he's got no other option than to trade. But other GMs know he's up against a rock and a hard place and they're not going to offer too much. Plus there are only a limited number of teams that A) he's willing to sign long-term with, and B) can take on his eventual cap hit. I think he goes for a decent prospect and a 2nd rounder.

The Wings don't hold his rights and therefore don't have to qualify him. They can basically name their price and if he doesn't agree (in principle) then they simply don't make the trade. The asking price is really only an issue if A) you're Ottawa and have to qualify him or lose him for nothing, or B) you're a general manager dumb enough to trade for him without an extension in place.

So you don't know what it is, but you're pretty sure it's too high, despite him being a very good player?

What's the asking price?

I'm a really big fan of Debrincat. He's a great shooter, quality playmaker, and a right handed threat on the powerplay. He's also very fast, competitive, and highly durable considering he's short. Yep, he's short. That's literally the only knock on him. Otherwise, what's not to like?

Severson is good, but if he's overpriced then I agree that it's better to pass. But Debrincat should be pursued. We need goals, he's a consistent offensive force, he's 25 AND he's from Michigan. Obviously SY should only trade for him if he agrees in principle to an extension beforehand. No way would I qualify him at 9.

Ottawa traded that much for Debrincat when he had term left on his deal and team control at the end of it. That has largely changed. He's a free agent with arbitration rights now. You'd be crazy to trade for him at this point unless you're sure he's going to sign long term because he can just go to arbitration, get awarded a one year deal, and walk in FA next summer. This will drive his price down (along with his 6+ million cap hit). As such, not many teams can A) afford him, or B) take the risk he doesn't want to re-sign after a year. The number of teams vying for him will be small and so will the ask (a la Chychrun). I think one of our 2023 2nds, a B-level prospect, and a roster player gets it done. I'd start with our second 2nd rounder this season and Albert Johansson. If Ottawa needs more I'm willing to add Zadina. If they STILL need more then I'd upgrade to our first 2nd rounder. If we land a top ten pick, another 1st round pick, two 2nd round picks, and Debrincat in the offseason we're looking really really good.

Supposedly he’s a good faceoff guy and works hard defensively. Plus he’s a really smart player and he’s till growing. All of that bodes well for him sticking at center. I don’t really get the AA comparisons though. Aside from being fast they’re both verify different players. One is a playmaking center with a high compete and a good brain, the other is a big dumb p*ssy.

Amadeus Lombardi with a nice assist in his first AHL game. Good skating and vision to make the play.

100%

Kasper and Edvinsson in for the Red Wings tonight, Wallinder and Mazur playing for GR today. F*ckin' A.

I really like the Edvinsson-Chiarot defense pair. For whatever reason they seem to play well together despite it making no sense whatsoever. More generally, I'm a huge fan of what SY did bringing in Chiarot, Copp, Maatta, Husso, and Walman to go along with Larkin as the leadership group that's meant to guide the young core of Seider, Edvinsson, Raymond, Berggren, Ras, Cossa, Kasper, etc. into contention. They're veterans, they plan the right way, they all work their butts off, and none of them are breaking the bank for what they bring to the table.