kipwinger

Because sometimes players have good games and sometimes players have bad games. And when you look at all 82 games in aggregate you get a clear picture of just how good (or bad) a player is overall. So far, Johansson has had two good games and no bad ones. Conversely, Edvinsson has had two bad games and one good one. Which is precisely the point I've been making all day. There is literally nothing to suggest that Edvinsson has been better than Johansson so far. From here on I'll have to charge you for these types of lessons in critical thinking.

If you need to me explain how to read graphs/stats then you probably shouldn't be arguing with me. p.s. You're definitely reading them wrong.

Again, feel free to turn your attention to the stats I've posted above. At no point in training camp or the pre-season has Johansson been a liability in the same ways that Edvinsson has been. In fact, he hasn't been a liability at all. He's consistently good at both ends of the ice. Edvinsson has had one good pre-season game and a couple of stinkers. I'd agree if you said "Edvinsson WILL be better". But there's literally nothing, statistically or anecdotally, to suggest he's better right now. Other than your eyeball test, obviously.

Never say I'm unwilling to compromise. In the end I'll just leave this as a final point in the Johansson vs. Edvinsson debate: It's all love baby.

How dare I pull quotes from one whole week ago. They're obviously irrelevant. But again, I'll wait for you to post all the times Lalonde has said anything equivalent about Johansson. And then when you're done with that feel free to respond to the fact that Johansson has not even once posted a negative impact, offensively or defensively, in a pre-season game (something that DEFINTELY can't be said about Edvinsson).

Then, of course, there's these bad boys which seem to show Simon Edvinsson fluctuating from horribly bad to moderately good while Albert Johansson has been consistently positive in all facets of the game. But I'm sure the ol' eyeball brigade has it right on this one.

That's odd, I don't recall Lalonde saying anything like this about Johansson: "You don’t have to be a trained hockey guy to see I’m sure he led the entire group today in turnovers,” Red Wings coach Derek Lalonde said of Edvinsson. “It’s something we’re going to work on with him. I think with Simon, he might have had six or seven turnovers in that first half,” Lalonde said. “That’s something he’s going to have to manage. That’s something we’re going to have to work with him.” I don’t know if it’s so much going to be a negative early on,” Lalonde said. “We understand it’s a process with him. Unfortunately for him, a lot of turnovers ended up back at him and caused him to defend on shifts where obviously we’d like him to be playing north." Maybe Lalonde is giving you and the other "95% of those that watched the games" too much credit?

Something about your reply seems deliberately provocative but I just can't put my finger on it. Edit: And speaking of things I just can't put my finger on, there's something I really like about Marco Kasper's game but I'm at a loss...

Disagree. Right now Albert Johansson is a better player than Simon Edvinsson. He's consistently been better all pre-season as well.

I agree with your premise but not your conclusion. His play is lazy right now, and definitely sloppy. But I don't think it's that he's "not close to Seider" or whatever. The dude DOMINATED the SHL a year ago. His 5on5 scoring rate as a D+1 was better than Seider's as a D+2 in that league. He was dominant in the Champions League tournament. At points a year ago the SHL seemed genuinely too easy for him. Now he's playing with a bunch of kids that don't play right, aren't in their spots, don't play defense, etc. I think Edvinsson is way too good for the Traverse City prospects tournament and he knows it, so he doesn't care. I play in a pool tournament every week and it seems like you never play your best when you're playing someone who's obviously terrible. Partially because you know you're better than them, and partly because the game becomes sloppy and chaotic when people don't know what they're doing. I'd send him to GR to prove a point, anytime your skates touch the ice you better bust your ass. He's cocky and hasn't had to earn the level of entitlement he seems to carry around just yet. I agree it's a matter of maturity, but I don't think it's a matter of talent. His game is pretty mature, his attitude isn't. He looks like Jacob Chychrun in terms of his skill level and physical tools. He's on another level than most guys athletically (even Seider). Because of that I think things come easy to him and he hasn't had a reality check yet. Better to do it now than have him turn into the Mantha of defense.

The format changed because a bunch of teams dropped out because of the pandemic and/or started their own prospects tournaments.

He's already an awesome skater and has really good skill (particularly passing). If he can get up to about 190-195 lbs I think he's a real threat in the NHL.

This isn't the first time I've seen Johansson do this either. He threw a lot of big hits in the SHL playoffs last year too.

Agreed, Edvinsson needs some time in GR. His defensive game is on point, but his offensive game lacks maturity and he needs to work on his shot. Of the two I'd say Albert Johansson is more NHL ready to be honest. I love that guy.

You realize Svech has a two-way contract from SJ right?

Svechnikov sucks man. Sorry to break it to you. Cholowski and Frk continue to find work as well, who cares?

Edit: So far this game Kasper has a goal, assist, awesome penalty kill, and he just took a roughing penalty lol. Love this dude.

Marco Kasper with a goal and an assist in the first period of a Champions League game today. I'm a huge fan of the Champion's League, it's a really fun concept.

While I could probably quibble with a few of these totals, I think you're generally in the ballpark on most of it. I don't think scoring is going to be our issue. I think our defense is still league average (at best) and our special teams still need a TON of work. That's the difference between us being a playoff contender and us being middle of the pack. I can easily see a reality in which we're better than Boston and competitive with Toronto, but I can also see a world where we can't score on the powerplay and lose a lot of close games that matter.

This week Corey Pronman of The Athletic is releasing his organizational depth rankings (Top 15 under 23, plus honorable mentions). He's already introduced all the way up to the top 10. Detroit still has yet to be unveiled. So...our top 15 under 23? My picks 1. Seider 2. Raymond 3. Edvinsson 4. Berggren 5. Sodorblom 6. Kasper 7.Rasmussen 8. Zadina 9. Veleno 10. Johansson 11. Wallinder 12. Andreasson 13. Mazur 14. Buium 15. Neiderbach Honorable Mentions: Sebrango, Viro, Cossa

This is going to be a pretty fun lineup for the Prospect Tournament. Our defense will be nasty.

Take it with a grain of salt, but so far today (in pre-season action) Marco Kasper has two goals and Buchelnikov has one. Kasper is starting to remind me a lot of Zetterberg (but with better skating). He's not flashy at all, but the offense is there anyway because he's got good fundamental skills to go along with the fact that he's very smart and works his tail off.

Also odd to see Berggren so low. The guy has done nothing but dominate two of the hardest leagues in the world the last two seasons. Finished the season with 10 multi point outings in this last 13 games a year ago.

Buium over Johansson and Wallinder? That's an interesting take from Pronman considering how good both those guys were in the SHL last year. I definitely get the impression that he doesn't fully understand how hard it is to score in that league because he still sleeps on the offensive ability of guys in the SHL.

It goes without saying, but recency bias will be a thing in Pronman's rankings, so despite the fact that we've got 21-22 year olds tearing up professional leagues he'll surely put someone like Cossa ahead of someone like Berggren because he's newer and was drafted in the first round.