kipwinger

Thank god for that.

Elmer is having a good season, he just doesn't play the right way. He'd be a dominant power forward, but he's content being an average skill guy. The other guys you mentioned definitely have some bite to their game, but not a power game. Like, Kasper is a lot like Ryan Kesler. Feisty, agitating, strong, and bordering dirty. But he's not going to run a guy over to slam home a rebound. Danielson is like Larkin. Tough, strong, sturdy, but not a power guy. Mazur is like Bunting, Bertuzzi, or Gallagher. Dirty, agitating, feisty but not a power forward. I would have liked to see SY draft Koehn Ziemmer last year instead of...checks notes...Noah Dower Nilsson? Woof.

None of those guys are what I mean when I talk about "power wingers" though. The first two are centers and the others don't play a power game. When I say power winger I mean someone like Josh Anderson, Tom Wilson, Alex Tuch, Brady Tkachuk, etc. The only guy in our organization with that kind of potential is Sodorblom. And it's getting to the point where I'd tell him that he either needs to start developing a power game or he's going nowhere in this organization. We don't need another winger that plays like Hanas and Mazur, we've got them.

I do, I just meant with respect to roster construction. I do think Lalonde is an issue, but I also think he's a good coach. I think he's inexperienced and doesn't fully understand that the "process" that coaches talk about with their players also applies to him as well.

IMO our biggest issues are 1. No 2C that can generate offense 2. Defense is too top heavy defensively 3. Our wingers are too small Honorable mention that our goalies suck, but life may have been different if Husso's groin hadn't exploded twice.

I think that's a fair criticism to a point. I think the entire team could be more physical, and guys like Ras, Fischer, and Chiarot should be leading the way. I've mentioned that we're soft as warm butter a lot lately. I DO think Ras uses his size and reach effectively in the offensive zone. Both in terms of protecting the puck and extending possessions, as well as on the forecheck getting the puck back. I get the feeling that the team is generally discouraged from running other teams and playing that type of game, which is a coaching decision IMO.

I agree that Compher and Copp have never been big scorers. Neither has Rasmussen. So why criticize Rasmussen for not scoring and not the two guys who score about the same, get paid more, and were both brought on board to play in more prominent offensive roles (2C)?

I don't remember it that way, but that's not really the point I'm making. The point I'm making is that Eaves clearly had more offensive upside than guys like Helm or Abby (or later Glendening) but never got half the opporunity in the top six that those guys did. Something about their game was "safer" than his. Maybe he was fine defensively and they were better. Maybe he was too "risky" or something. In whatever case, Babs felt better playing guys in the top six who had no potential to score over a guy that did. If he was nearly as good defensively that only proves the point I'm making, which is that in many cases you can improve a guy's defensive much more easily than you can improve his offense.

I was just using Berggren as a hypothetical. He's actually solid enough defensively, he just turns the puck over at bad times. That's why he's in the press box. I think that's an easily coachable issue. My point is that getting someone who scores to play better defense is an easier task than getting Czarnik to score. I 100% agree that we need a top four defenseman. But someone who can actually defend in big minutes. Doesn't have to be Tanev/Gudas, but in that mold. That way you can free up Seider and Walman to play in the offensive zone a little more and utilize their actual skill instead of asking them to defend all game long.

Well, I think he's a young coach caught in a logic trap. He thinks that you have to be great defensively to win (which I agree with). He talks all the time about how Tampa had to learn to play the right way. But that's the thing, Tampa had a team full of talented players who evolved into a solid defensive team. Lalonde is trying to skip to the end by icing a team full of guys that can defend, regardless of whether they're talented. Babcock used to do this too and it made me crazy. He'd rather have Darren Helm in the top six than Patrick Eaves because Helm was better defensively. Meanwhile you've got a 30 goal scorer in your press box and your team can't score enough goals to win. Why not play Eaves (understanding he's not as good defensively) and make the focus of his development that he become an adequate defender? Ya know, coach him? I'm blown away that we're losing every game, can't find icetime for Berggren and Kostin, but have Czarnik in the lineup. At the very worst why not lose every game, play the guys who can score (or hit and fight), and teach them how to be better defenders? The outcome would be exactly the same but one of the two options at least has growth potential.

Lefty...you're high. First, Rasmussen is roughly the tenth best player taken in that draft and we took him 9th. There was absolutely nothing wrong with that pick. Same for Veleno. Literally nobody "drafted for bottom 6/3 talent". It was hoped that Ras would be a top six player, and he isn't. That why he's only making 3 million bucks next year. He's tied with Raymond for most points during this awful streak of ours, plays against top opposition, and kills penalties. He's a useful player that with middling offense. He's not Valeri Nichushkin and doens't get paid like it either. You know who you maybe SHOULD point a finger at (aside from SY and Lalonde)? Guys like Alex Debrincat. This dude makes 7.8 million dollars a year and has FOUR even strength goals in his last 50 games. Andrew Copp makes 4X as much as Rasmussen and has the same number of points. JT Compher makes 5 million a year and has 4 points in his last 10 games. By comparison Joe Veleno has 3 points in the last 10 games and makes less than a million. Jake Walman gets top pair minutes is MINUS TEN during our losing streak and looks absolutely befuddled in the defensive zone (so much that he was scratched a few games ago). If you're looking for problems with this team right now and your finger rests on Rasmussen and Veleno I seriously question your judgement. It absolutely doesn't mean that those guys are above criticism (Ras had a costly penalty yesterday) but overall those guys are more than earning their money and limited icetime. There are a WHOLE bunch of dudes on this team that are not earning either of those things right now.

Why bother? We just had that exact player, only five years younger, and Lalonde wouldn't play him. I think it's got to be a player with enough offensive upside to justify keeping him in the lineup. Otherwise I think Derek will default to whatever "safe", two-way, guy he has handy. I mean, we literally have Czarnik in the lineup right now but couldn't find a spot for Kostin and Berggren is in the press box. Derek wants "no event" hockey out of his bottom end guys, clearly.

The good new is that we didn't really need a young, cost controlled, power forward anyway

Another goal tonight for Klim the Dream in 16+ minutes of ice time.

Nice assist by Rasmussen there. Tied with Raymond for most productive player on the team during this skid, in addition to being the best defensive forward we have. His line gets the toughest matchups of the night AND is scoring goals. Hard to ask more from Ras-Copp-Fischer.

That's a good retort, and effective for winning a debate, but you and I both know that it comes down to what the coach prioritizes. Lalonde would rather NOBODY fill that role. Which is why nobody fills it. Same with Holl. He's not great, god knows, but if size and physicality were a priority he'd play over Maatta. I don't envy coaches, they've got a tough job. They have to figure out the right mixture of traits for every player and every team. It's okay that Kane is soft, and non competitive, and risky with the puck because he's scores a ton. It's okay that Chiarot gets lost in the defensive zone because he's good in transition and on the PK. It's alright that Ghost and Raymond are horrendous defensively because they're dynamic and good on the powerplay. Apparently Kostin's recipe of traits wasn't what Lalonde wanted or he'd have played more. But it's hard not to think that's a mistake when A) you see him playing well elsewhere (Edmonton and San Jose) and B) we get absolutely ragdolled every single time we play a physical team.

We should probably bring him back. God knows SY can never have too many small(ish) one dimensional 10G, 10A wingers on his team.

I don't think Kostin is "good", but he's plenty good enough to play on our 4th line so that we don't get physically humiliated by teams like Ottawa and Florida. That's what we acquired him to do, and then the coach just decided not to use him anymore. My point in mentioning his production in San Jose was both tongue-in-cheek, but also meant to show that he's not actually a bad player. I don't understand recognizing that we get pushed around, making moves to address it (Kostin, Fischer, Holl) and then not really using these guys. Kostin is averaging 3 more minutes of icetime in San Jose and not surprisingly he's scoring a little more. Obviously it's a small sample size, and he's not going to score .75 ppg. But let's say he scored .30 points per game (roughly his career average). That's 24 points. Over the course of his career he's also roughly had as many assists as goals, so that 24 points breaks down to 12G and 12A. Conversely, Robby Fabbri (for example) is on pace for 36 points (21G, 15A) this season. Now ask yourself which we need more, 9 extra goals/3 extra assists or the ability to fight back a little bit against the Tkachuks of the world?

Kostin has three points in three games for San Jose? Maybe Derek was the problem?

You mean the guy who’s scoring at a mediocre rate in the WHL right now?

I don’t think he plays center. As far as the other part I don’t know, I’m just repeating what I read.

I like you just the way you are.

A few weeks ago Corey Pronman of the Athletic linked the top guy, Collin Graf, to the Red Wings. He said we got close to signing him last year.

Seriously, if we don't find an actual 2C in the offseason I'm going to make "Free Dylan Larkin" t-shirts to wear to every game I attend next year. I cannot believe we've been looking for a 2C since we signed Stephen Weiss and we still don't have one.

Meh, I'd rather be arrogant than cynical. But that's just me.