kipwinger
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Posts posted by kipwinger
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The thing with Nyquist, or Tatar, is that they're small skilled guys. The Wings have a bunch of guys like that. When you have a lot of one thing and not a lot of another, you use what you have a lot of to get what you don't. Small wingers and quality young d-men out, big wingers in.
Agreed 3000%
sjr2012 reacted to this -
Don't watch it then, problem solved.
Dude, you always say this and it's getting old. Because one could easily argue that if you want to watch people get punched so much why don't you go watch boxing or MMA.
I'm not here to try and convince you that fighting is dumb, or bad, or whatever. It wouldn't work even if I tried. But please stop with the "if you don't like it don't watch" argument, because it's not a very good one and is basically the adult equivalent of taking your ball and going home.
Euro_Twins, Son of a Wing and stillwater reacted to this -
Maybe a better way of doing this is list prospect by class years.
2013/14:
Nyquist, Tatar, and Dekeyser-all here and playing well.
2014/15:
Jurco, Sheahan, and Almquist-first 2 are up playing well, not sure if Almquist has a spot or is trade bait.
2015/16:
Mrasek and Mantha-2 potential great ones!
2016/17:
Frk, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Oullett, Sproul, jensen, Merchanko, and Nedomlel-5 Dman ready, not all will make it. lots of trade bait here.
2017/18:
Paterson, Wheaton, McNulty, McKee, and Nastasiuk-way to early to really know if any of these guys make it. None have played a pro hockey game yet.
2018/19:
yet to be determined.......
Yeah, but you can't simply say "a guy's up and playing well in the NHL and therefore don't trade him". If you never traded a guy who was playing well, you'd never get anything of value. You have to consider the possibility of trading a Nyquist, Tatar, Smith, Sheahan, Jurco (one of them, not multiple) if you want something of value. Nobody is going to give you a Wheeler, Ladd, Kane, etc. for unproven potential. You need to include guys that have shown they can play well in the NHL and then sweeten the pot with picks or prospects.
Which begs the question, "if a guy is playing well in the NHL then why trade him"? Which is the Ken Holland school of thought. You trade him because the guy you get back fills a need better, or because you're bleeding prospects and don't have room for them all, or the upside on the return is greater than what's going out. There's a ton of reasons to part with quality talent.
Son of a Wing reacted to this -
Anaheim were looking to move Ryan for quite some time. So those circumstances favoured Ottawa a bit. And, for the record, Silfverberg > Nyquist (IMO).
But I see what you're saying.
I wonder if Nyquist + 1st would get us Wheeler?
I don't think it would land us Wheeler, but it would be a good starting point. Add a decent prospect, Pulkkinen or Jarnkrok and that might do it. Then again, I don't know if Winnipeg is looking for offense or defense. If they wanted defense I'd do Smith, 1st, and Marcheko for Wheeler, but that's just me.
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The way things have been going, im on board with this idea. Except keep Jurco as well.
I mean, I REALLY like Jurco. Especially in combination with Sheahan, but I'd entertain it. But I'd need a BIG return to move Jurco AND a guy like Nyquist or Smith. I look at it this way, the Sens got Ryan for a package which was essentially Ottawa's versions of Nyquist, Frk, and a 1st. I don't think we need anyone as good as Ryan, so a combination of Nyquist and a 1st, or Smith and a 1st should get us the return we need.
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We'd be sitting here so smug like "just wait till you guys see him play"...man Kip, this talks getting me too excited about something thatll never happen
:( Yeah, I agree. I keep (foolishly) hoping to wake up and hop online and see the headline "Red Wings trade for..." but to no avail. Honestly, there are a ton of things wrong with this team right now, but one of the biggest is our GM's stubborn refusal to make any moves whatsoever. There's not a lot you can do with the dead weight, but given how bad we're playing you have to at least entertain the idea of moving some young pieces for things we need. If I'm Holland I put the word out that our 1st, Nyquist, Smith, and any prospects not named Mantha or Sproul are moveable (in some combination) for a top six winger with size. Just to see what kind of offers we'd get.
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Genius move by toronto....i wish we had a GM who trades for players like that
Well Schenn was Toronto's version of Smith, and while I would gladly move Smith for a guy like JVR imagine how apes*** everyone around here would go...well until they saw him play anyway.
Rick D and RedWang reacted to this -
Couldnt agree more Kip. Hes one of my favorite players in the league forsure. His potential is absolutely unreal. Hes the kindof player who does something sick every shift. If Toronto were stupid enough to ever let him go (which im doubting) thered be a bidding war over him forsure. Almost, and i mean almost...any team that ads a player of that caliber is a cup contender. Hes a big part of why toronto is doing as well as they are this half of the season.
And to think, Philly traded him for Schenn because they weren't willing to wait out a concussion. The Flyers have to be one of the poorest run franchises in the league. The only thing that keeps Holmgren from being named amongst all the other worst GMs in the league has been the amount of money they've spent and the two buyouts that saved them from the cap hell that Bryzgalov and Briere had them in.
RedWang reacted to this -
That's because none of the Canadian Olympians play for the Red Wings. I keed, I keed.
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Id trade anyone except for Z Dats n Tatar for JVR. The kids a superstar. Slightly overshadowed by phil kessel. But nonetheless is the big, fast, scoring winger with sick hands who likes to park it netfront. Exactly what the team needs!
I love JVR, but don't see him going anywhere. Although, the Maple Leafs have traditionally been known for doing impossibly stupid things so maybe. Anyway, JVR is the next Jeff Carter and it's exactly that type of guy that the Wings could use. I'd move Nyquist in a second for a guy like that.
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The point of my saying to trade Nyquist was not to say that he's a bad player, he's not. But contrary to what most of LGW believes, you can't get a top six winger for Cleary, Kindl, and a 3rd. You need to give up something valuable. Nyquist has value, he's good, but not what we really need right now. The margin of victory for the Red Wings does not rest on Nyquist's defensive upside (I don't see that he's particularly good at it right now) or assist totals. We need someone with 25-30 goal potential and size...Nyquist and a 1st would be the starting price for a piece like that.
rick zombo and RedWang reacted to this -
It's not really surprising that Z had a bad game last night. He's one of only two offensive threats on our team right now, and we were playing one of the three best defensive teams in hockey. I imagine it's REALLY hard to play well with David Backes draped all over you for 60 minutes.
evilzyme and 55fan reacted to this -
Not exactly. Kocur didn't sign on until 96-97.
Kocur played for the Wings during two different spans. He was on the team between 85-91 and then came back.
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I don't like Nyquist in the top six. He's not producing and I don't think he's ready physically to play against the league's top forwards. When (if) guys get healthy I'd like to see him dropped down the depth chart, or preferably packaged with our first for a winger with some size for the top six.
RedWang and Dabura reacted to this -
Wow talk about not understanding hockey, Hartley did nothing wrong yet these greedy idiots are fining him. This league is turning into a joke 6 games for torts seems fair and right If I am Hartley I'd tell them to f*** off because Incandescent start whoever I want, he should go to a neutral arbitrator and appeal Burke is perplexed with the fine and stands behind Hartley, if I'm the owner I would pay for him with a nice letter to the league questioning their understanding of the term rivalry
He didn't get fined for starting his goons. He got fined because his goons made no attempt to play the puck off the opening faceoff and were clearly instructed to do what they did. You can keep saying "Hartley can start who he wants" and nobody will disagree because he can, but you shouldn't confuse that with the reason he got suspended. Here's the league's quote on Hartley's fine...
"We are holding Mr. Hartley responsible for the actions of Flames' right wing Westgarth, who took the game's opening faceoff and attempted to instigate a premeditated fight with an unwilling opponent -- the Canucks' Kevin Bieksa."
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I don't think there's much mystery with Tootoo not playing. Mike Babcock hates fighting. Ken Holland hates fighting. So there goes a huge part of Tootoo's game. And it means he needs to play a solid defensive game, because he'll be in the bottom six. And he doesn't play a solid defensive game.
Personally, I'd like to see him on a scoring line. I think he could do some damage (the good kind).
I don't really think it's fair to say that Holland hates fighting. Over the years he's usually had a guy or two who fought on the roster. Downey, May, McCarty, Tootoo, Drake, Avery were all on the roster when Holland was GM. But he doesn't coach the team, if Babs doesn't play them, what are you going to do?
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Boss nothing. He's Dano's stick boy.
I see what you did there. Totally out of left field. You never turn every single conversation into a pedantic rant about Cleary, Bert, Sammy, or Quincey that we all implicitly agree with. Bravo!
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Sheahan's awesome.
He can do anything! I love his forecheck. He forechecks like a Blues player 
Well I definitely agree with you there. I really wasn't impressed with his one game call up last year, but he's made HUGE strides since then. He's a total boss now. Very good defensively. Kudos to him.
Z Winged Dangler reacted to this -
Helm and Sheahan together is dangerous. I was saying that the other day in a GDT that Sheahan could also play the wing, but someone said they don't like it when guys come off their regular position. Sheahan can do it, Z can do it, Franzen used to be a centre. Sheahan has the skill to pay wherever the hell he wants! Keep that kid up fo good yo!
Actually, a lot of our forwards can play different positions. Something we rarely talk about.
I was the one that said I don't like it when guys move from their established positions. I know that guys CAN do it, but I don't prefer it. Franzen and Zetterberg are both better as wingers than centers and their best seasons have been on the wing, and Sheahan has been a stud so far at center so I don't understand why you'd move him to the wing. The only guy it seems to work for is Abby, and even then, I'm not sure he's any better as a wing than as a center.
But I should say, it's not that it's impossible for guys to do it. There are talented players all over the league who "could" change positions, but if they've shown that they're effective in one role then barring injuries I don't see why you'd move them to a position where they've been less effective. Anyway, it's all academic because that's how Babs rolls and there's no changing it, so it is what it is.
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Missed the first two periods, anybody want to fill me in on how we look...hopefully without devolving into a "Sammy, Clearly, Bert, Quincey" tirade.
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Torts is a jackass. Just put Sestito and Kassian out there to fight the two mongoloids from Calgary and move on. I thought that was the whole reason Vancouver had Kassian and Sestito to begin with. If you aren't going to put the Sedins out and try to avoid it, get your tough guys out there and get it over with.
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From what I gather their fans are desperate for a coaching change.
They have talent but I don't see them as a very strong team over 7 games.
Haha, given that they're only willing to hire french canadian coaches they'd better slow it down a little on the coaching changes. Alain Vigneault already has a job and Guy Boucher sucks, so there's nobody else but Therrien left.
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Too late! IT'S MINE ALL MINE!!! HE MADE IT FOR MEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!111!!11!Would you say that it's your "precious"?
BottleOfSmoke reacted to this -
I haven't really watched them much this season. But in years past it always seemed like they weren't built for the tight checking of the playoffs. They had neither the toughness nor the high end skill to be successful in the playoffs. But again, I haven't seen them much this season.
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Not necessarily true. Bobby Ryan was traded for a guy with Nyquist-like NHL numbers, a boom or bust prospect (like Frk for us), and a first. There are a ton of variables at play in the trade market, but Nyquist and a 1st would definitely be a really good starting point (as I said before) for a quality trade.