kipwinger
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Posts posted by kipwinger
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Jesus, a lot of you are making it seem like he's been out for a year or two. He's not Crosby there fellas, he's missed a good chunk of time, but that happens with concussions. Let's not jump to conclusions. I mean, if I had a nickel for every person that said Helm or Bertuzzi was done after last year I'd be typing this post from somewhere that serves drinks with little umbrellas out of Brazilian girls' belly buttons...so basically anywhere in Brazil.
canadian wings fan reacted to this -
So, I don't really want to post line combos, but I just did this on capgeek. Following this blueprint we can fit the majority of our young guys and still have room for the vets that aren't going anywhere. They, if we want to make further moves, we're in good shape capwise to do so.
CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($3.500m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Stephen Weiss ($4.900m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.630m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Tomas Jurco ($0.709m)
Drew Miller ($1.350m) / Joakim Andersson ($0.733m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Danny Cleary ($1.750m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Danny DeKeyser ($0.925m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.775m)
Brendan Smith ($1.263m) / Brian Lashoff ($0.725m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
BURIED
Mikael Samuelsson ($2.900m)
Jordin Tootoo ($0.975m)
Patrick Eaves ($0.275m)
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CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2013-14 crunched using simulation date of 2014-01-28)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; BONUSES: $2,850,833
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,430,167Some thoughts:
1. We're not waiving Cleary or Bert, so best we can hope for is that they're scratched (which is possible with this lineup).
2. I traded Kindl for nothing. Someone would take him for a conditional 4th or something. Probably more than that actually if we really wanted to do a for real trade.
3. I demoted Glendening and Sheahan sadly. However, either of them could be back if we made an admittedly difficult decision and traded Andersson or moved one to wing in place of Jurco.
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Free agency is going to be weak, but I'm ok with letting the younger guys develop on D. Kindl probably isn't going to get a lot better, but there's still a chance and even if he doesn't he's pretty damn good for a 3rd pairing guy. Smith still has some upside and can easily still end up as a 2nd pairing guy. If he can cut down on the derp plays, Kronwall-Dekeyser, Smith-Ericsson can be a pretty good top 4. Lashoff is a pretty solid #7. The 6 spot is the one up for grabs. Do they let a kid come in? I think Marchenko can handle that next year. If they don't agree, they should sign a vet stay home guy to a one year deal, no more. The other option would be to trade Kindl or Smith as part of a package to bring someone in. I'm not sure who is going to be available, but if they can move Kindl and a D prospect to get someone like Edler or another good d-man it's a good deal. They don't have room for all the kids anyway, so they might as well use them to fill needs now.
Up front they need size in the top 6. I don't think Jurco will be up full time, so he's not the answer. I think the best solution is to move Nyquist or Tatar and get a guy, either give up a little extra to get him, or make a move with a team looking to cut some salary. I like them both, but the Wings are loaded with skilled forwards 6'0" and under, and the one scoring player who's bigger doesn't really play a real physical game. I think they're going to sign at least one, probably two, free agent forwards to play on the top 3 lines. Whether that's re-signing guys (please nobody but Alfredsson) or bringing guys in. If they only sign one, I think you're going to see Jurco up.
I agree with most of what you're saying, except that I don't like Smith in the top four. Against decent competition he turns the puck over A LOT, rarely creates offense, and frequently blows zone coverage. He'll get better, but until then he'd be my third-pair puck mover until he shows (like Ericsson eventually did) that he can play the game safely. Until then, he's not ready to play defense on the second pair and his offense isn't good enough to make the turnovers and shoddy zone coverage worthwhile.
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Wonder if gaborik makes it to free agency.. Although I don't know if we'd want to pay him as much as he'll demand elsewhere anyway
I've always loved Gaborik, and for the right price (significantly less than he makes now) I'd still take him. But honestly, I'd like to see a Jeff Carter/James Van Riemsdyk type of guy. Those two aren't going anywhere, but you get the idea.
wingedominance13 and amato reacted to this -
Well, the blame is passed from one to the other in different circumstances.
It is on Babcock when he can pick and choose who he wants to play and he picks incorrectly.
It is on Holland when everyone is healthy, and we have to send down guys who make the team better because he kept signing a bunch of guys we didn't need.
I agree with your point, however I'm not particularly interested in "blaming" anyone. It's not therapeutic for me to point fingers. The roster could have been managed better, and the coaching could be better, but immaterial right now. We've got a team that could (and should) go on a run down the stretch. There's no reason for this team to miss the playoffs. Add a puck mover to the second pair (moving Smith to the third and Kindl off the team for good) and a scoring winger with some size and there's no reason we shouldn't compete for the Cup.
But to do so requires that tough decisions be made. Moving the right combination of vets, prospects, young guys, and picks. How deftly Holland does that will say a lot more about his talent than all the FA singings in the world. Likewise, how well Babs can coach a young team that doesn't coach itself (like he's had since he joined the organization) will say a lot about his talent as well.
unsaddleddonald reacted to this -
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This is just like every other Babcock cliche. It's not saying much to say "the best players will play" when there's no competition for jobs at the moment. Bring Dats, Z, and Weiss back and there will be, and I'd be amazed if "the best player played".
He might as well say, "the best player (who can effectively alleviate cap constraints) will play". Which is no different than two months ago when Tootoo and Eaves were waived.
Talk is cheap. It's time for Holland and Babs to actually DO SOMETHING to prove that "the best players will play". And that doesn't mean waiving Sammy either.
Mitchmac33 reacted to this -
I really like those lines, but if it was any lines I could have with any Wings players, it would be almost the same, but:
Z-Dats-Nyquist
Franzen-Weiss-Alfredsson
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco
Glendening-Helm-Abdelkader
I would keep that 3rd line together until they become our 1st line, and then still keep them together until they all retire! Trade Kindl to the Jets for Stuart and bench Quincey:
Kronwall-Ericsson
Smith-DeKeyser
Lashoff-Stuart
That team could win the Cup. I'm confident of that.
I wish this would work, and I sure hope it still will...but given how bad Franzen, Weiss, and Alfie played together I'd be real hesitant to pencil them in together.
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I don't think a budget team like Nashville is going to cough up 28 million for 2 years of the new contract and then deal Weber. It just doesn't make sense.
Yeah, this is what I'm thinking too. The amount of money they've invested in him keeps him there for a while, and the amount of money we'd have to pay him (including his bonuses) means we don't go get him. There is no way we trade for a guy that makes more than Dats or Z. Just not happening.
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I am going to be one of the first to have it written down. This summer, Ken Holland will pursue and most likely attain the services of Shea Weber. Nashville didn't like that contract to begin with and they are really riding the bottom of the NHL and will look for a new direction. Babcock will spend the Olympics schmoozing Weber and talking up the direction of the Red Wings, and when the Wings make the playoffs for the 23rd straight season this will solidify Weber's decision to want to come to Detroit. The price will be hefty, but it will involve our 1st round pick this season to give Nashville TWO picks in the top 17. It may include some guys that we do not want to lose, but for Weber, the price is worth it...
You're off your rocker man, but I do appreciate your enthusiasm.
wingedominance13 reacted to this -
Yes that's one way to put it, but personally I would leave the twins split. I throw Weiss on pavels wing because I believe he is the best guy to help get him going and feeling confident! If we get the Stephen Weiss of old, this team is gonna be so scary! If they can somehow keep all the kids up and get the dead weight out I would seriously put there forward group up against any other in the NHL!
Weiss- datsyuk- alfy
Nyquist- z- mule
Tatar- Sheehan- jurco
Abby- helm- glendening
With this lineup you have 3 scoring lines, but they are also all defensively responsible. You have a kid line full of energy, skill, speed, determination, and hunger. You have an energy 4th line that is so fast and will give teams absolute fits, but they are also responsible and can match up with other teams top lines.
Weiss is a natural center and has never played the wing consistently in his professional career. How would putting him in an unnatural position, in an unnatural system make him feel more comfortable and "get him going".
Better to put Z on Weiss' wing if you're trying to coax along his offense considering Z produces better on the wing than he does at center.
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Henrik Zetterberg Pavel Datsyuk Tomas Jurco
Johan Franzen Stephen Weiss Gustav Nyquist
Tomas Tatar Riley Sheahan Daniel Alfredsson
Justin Abdelkader Darren Helm Jordin Tootoo
(Re: Tootoo - Yes, I'm trolling.)
I like this. Except swap Helm and Sheahan (considering Helm learned how to score goals out of nowhere) and drop Tootoo for Miller (since you've already dropped one of our better PK guys in Andy).
I like it because you've got a guy who can carry the puck into the zone on each line (Dats, Weiss, Helm, Sheahan), a guy who plays well without the puck on each line (Z, Franzen, Tatar, Abby), and a guy who's most successful when playing with the puck (Jurco, Nyquist, Tatar) on the others. Miller is obviously there for defense and special teams so who cares what he does with or without the puck.
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http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/01/mike_babcock_the_best_guys_are.html
So right now Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Andersson, and Weiss are out but most likely all will be back after the Olympics.
Bert sat last night for Alfredsson and Sammy was waived for Franzen's return.
After the Olympics, there will be 3 players currently on the roster who will not be there. Here are some candidates to be sent down/waived:
Cleary
Bertuzzi
Tatar
Jurco
Glendening
Sheahan
As the article mentions, Bert and Cleary are struggling offensively and could be waived. Knowing Babs' man-crush for Cleary I am assuming that Danny Boy stays on the team (he has an 'A' on for God's sake!). Bert has struggled but I think he has a net-front presence that can't be easily replaced, even by Franzen.
So, at this point there is a hard decision to see who the "best guys" are. My picks to be sent down are Glendening (hate to see his grit go but they want goals), Jurco (similar to Tatar, not as productive as of late), and Sheahan (although he has played very good and the Tatar-Sheahan-Nyquist combo was great against FLA). But barring an injury-free Wings team (HA!) these guys will get plenty more games this season.
Weiss has so little wiggle-room to fit into the offensive scheme it almost isn't fair. The young guys are playing like they have something to prove and are proving it. I think he could be the top trade-bait player (does he have an NTC/NMC?) if he doesn't produce immediately.
Weiss does have an NTC if I recall correctly.
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I wonder if Zetterberg ever gets tired of answering questions about Datsyuk in the media. I'm not sure if the sports writers realize this, but Zetterberg is a REALLY, REALLY, REALLY good player too. Yet, nobody ever asks Datsyuk what it's like to play with Zetterberg.
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Yes Kip, those are the projected season totals. BTW 248 goals as a team would be top 10 every year as well.
Gotcha, mine were their current goal totals. I'll give you this, your team can hit. I didn't tally my hits yet, but I specifically put Okposo, Simmonds, and three hard hitting defenders on their to make sure they'd be tough to play against.
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I agree with Dickie about Green. I just moved to Washington D.C. in November and I watch a lot of Caps games. Green is ******* horrible. He plays zero defense, he's no good on the PP anymore, and he makes way too much money to be in and out of the lineup on a weekly basis. No thanks.
I disagree with Dickie about Weber. He's hugely overrated defensively. Sure he can score, and he's pretty good defensively, but like Letang he's an offensive defenseman dressed up (and paid) like a two way guy. He's not. Plus, take a look at all the guaranteed money he gets based on insane bonuses. There's no way the Wings should bring in a guy who's going to make almost 30 million dollars a year for the next two or three years. And they definitely shouldn't gut their promising young forwards to do it.
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The play by most of the Griffins call ups is going to make things very interesting once we get the majority of our players back. If I had to guess, I would say that both Sheahan and Jurco will go back down. What I can't figure out is how you take Glendening out of the lineup (even for say Andersson).
After watching the past few games both he (Glendening) and Lashoff have stood out to me. Not because they create great chances or play smart defensive hockey, but because both can be a bit nasty. I think that element more than say a crushing hitter or some big time fighter is what we've been missing most.
Both of the those guys do play solid hockey, but they also get under people's skin. Glendening was all over Kane during the Chicago game and was at someone else earlier in the week. And Lashoff, although he may not crush people, can be down right nasty in front of his own net (see the Hossa exchange during the last game). These two guys make us harder to play against, maybe not physically so much but definitely mentally for the other team. I think the wings expected this out of Tootoo, but just got a guy who runs around, tries to put people through the boards and fights occasionally. I think the fact the two guys above are just on top of the other team from the get go pisses them off, especially if they're giving someone a hidden slash or crosscheck.
Plus Glendening gives us something we currently don't have, a right-handed centerman.
Said it before I'll say it again, I love Brian Lashoff. Despite never scoring, and being on the ice with linemates who never score, he's still a respectable -2...ya know...because he actually plays defense. A far cry from the defensive ubermensch that are Kindl and Smith.
haroldsnepsts, Dabura and ahkmed reacted to this -
Cool, thanks for the info fellas.
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I would trade for fleischmann, get rid of Bert, Sammy, Cleary, and Quincy.. I would have my lines be
Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Alf
Fleisch, Weiss, Franzen
Tatar, helm, nyquist
Jurco, Sheahan, eaves/tootoo
Kronwall, Eric
Dekeyser, smith
Lash, marchenko/sproul/alm
Howard
Gust
I like your gusto, but you just gutted your penalty killing. Miller and Andersson are key components in one of the league's better PKs.
Sounds good to me if Samuelsson would agree to it. You wouldn't think he'd be opposed to it, but he's not always easy to figure out.
Agreed. I mean, it's entirely hypothetical. I was just trying to explain why I don't see Sammy as "unmovable" the way many do.
Also, because it's possible doesn't mean it's probable.
Also Also, I still don't want Fleischmann. I just think that's the kind of move Holland would do.
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You can add as many players as you can fit under the cap. For the playoffs, there is no cap I think
Aha, so barring an injury to a player who makes a decent amount of money the Wings would be able to add nobody because we're up against the cap?
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You have it pegged, but the only problem is the Wings have no cap or roster space. Getting rid of bodies is a must if a move is going to be made. It's frustrating, to say the least. None of the GR guys should go back, but when everyone is healthy, I have no idea how this situation will be resolved. Even Eaves has proven his worth. He could be possible trade bait, but he doesn't give a whole lot of cap relief. If they waived one or all of Cleary, Bertuzzi and Sammy, it would give us roster space, but not cap space. Holland has backed himself into a corner with no good way out.
I mean, he's definitely in a hot spot, but personally I don't think it's as bad as everyone says. Holland has always been reluctant to move potential, but if he is willing and can find the right deal around a young player, prospect, or pick then I don't see the vets being a problem. Here's why: If you're Florida and you're willing to trade Fleischmann for prospects and picks and Detroit is the right match for you, but the only way to make it work is to take Sammy as well, then you'd be stupid not to do it. Sammy's cap hit wouldn't matter because you've got plenty of room. You'd only have to pay about 1/3 of his salary because actual salary is pro-rated for the season. And finally, he's not under contract so he doesn't hurt you long term. Basically, You'd lose Fleischmann's bigger salary for Sammy's smaller one, and you'd gain the prospects and picks which wouldn't count against you financially until next year (at the earliest). At which point Sammy would be gone to free agency or retirement, and it wouldn't matter.
Also since Sammy isn't playing much (at all) and he's getting paid either way, I don't see it being a hard sell to convince him to waive his no-trade clause to go "earn" his money soaking up the sun in Florida for a couple of months.
Using the same formula you could potentially move anyone. Hell, if you can get clear of Sammy then everyone else would be a piece of cake.
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Former Wing prospect, European, fits the bill on most of Hollands requirements, but he's under 30 and over 6 ft.. Too young and too tall.
But I appreciate an actual realistic trade proposal. I could see it happening depending on if Florida would take some roster guys in return. But that goes against Holland's MO too. He usually only wants to trade draft picks.Unless something has changed, the last I heard was that Florida was trying to dump salary for prospects and picks. Given that Fleischmann has another year on his contract, and if the prospect-pick combo is still what they're after I could definitely see Holland offering our 2nd and a second stage prospect. Not a Jurco, Sproul, Mrazek type of prospect, but maybe a Marchenko, Pulkkinen, Ferraro type. Those are exactly the kinds of trades that Holland will make. It's that whole "offering something of value" thing that really jams him up.
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Legit question here for the forum. How does the roster expansion work after the trade deadline? I mean, how do the rules work to ensure that there is no cap circumvention? I legitimately don't know the nuts and bolts of this one.
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This is my darkhorse trade deadline pick. Tomas Fleischmann to Detroit to play with Weiss. Calling it. Ugh.
Franzen Placed on IR
in General
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I mean, by the sounds of it Franzen will be able to tag along since he's never going to play hockey again...unless...unless, he's a vegetable that is.
Anyway, everyone needs a wing man. Just don't cramp my style.