krsmith17

How is that a strawman? You literally said we should draft a defenseman, no? I was agreeing with you... I never said we can't assume Raymond or Seider will amount to anything... but you know that... All I'm saying is that it's hard to say for sure that Seider is our Hedman, and Raymond is our Point, when neither of them have played a single NHL game, let alone as a 1D / 1C... Where have I "argued" for anyone? I've said there are a handful of guys I'd be okay with Yzerman taking. I trust that he knows a hell of a lot more than anyone here about all of these guys. A lot of people feel the same way.

I'm glad we agree... Larkin currently sits with 289 points in 433 games. At the same age, O'Reilly had 256 points in 439 games. He too didn't have a single Stanley Cup ring, or any individual awards. At the same age, Larkin has been the better player, on worse NHL teams (The Avs were bad, but not current Red Wings bad). So you think Larkin can get back to 60-70 point seasons, but you don't think he can further improve his defense? Okay... I think he will retire a Red Wing and be a captain for his entire tenure. Maybe you should google Red Wings captains traded. You might be in for a shocker... Your captain doesn't necessarily have to be your best player. Yzerman isn't going to strip Larkin of the C, and hand it to Seider, or any other player. It's not going to happen.

Absolutely. I would be very disappointed if Yzerman didn't take a single defenseman in this draft... I'm still a huge Raymond guy. Troll harder bud... Burgerman: "Edvinsson is my guy"... Also, Burgerman: "We need to take Wallstedt at 6"... Also, also Burgerman: "Johnson is my number one now"...

Obviously doesn't think we should take a goalie in the top 10... Not as many people are saying that we shouldn't take Edvinsson at 6. That's why he's backing off on him as his number one...

Exactly. I "think" we have our 1D in Seider, but it's not really fair to anoint him as such when he hasn't played a single game in the NHL. I never once said Raymond was the best pick in that draft. Could he be? Sure. Would I bet on it? Not at this point. I also never said "you can't write home about Raymond"... I said you can't pencil him in as a center, when he hasn't played the position in over three years... Oh, I have opinions... Because I'd "like" the goalie at 6, but I'd "like" other players more... I'm not like you, and have to take a stance on one player, and stick with it. I've been saying for weeks, there are half a dozen guys I'd be very happy with at 6th overall. Some more than others... I'm not sure if I mentioned this, but I wasn't arguing against the goalie at 6. I was arguing all of the other dumb s***... And now I'm arguing why I was arguing... I remember why I took a break from this f***ing place...

This is what this guy always does. He's notorious for it. He's also notorious for this... I guarantee he doesn't care who we take at 6. He's likely not even that high on Wallstedt. He just knows so many people don't want the goalie, so he wants the goalie... You CAN say that Yzerman wouldn't have taken Vasilevskiy at 6, when he didn't even take him at 10. IF Vasi was his guy, he would have undoubtedly taken him at 10, instead of Koekkoek. He proved THAT with the Seider pick... You take your guy when you can, because he might not be available later...

Not even close to being accurate. There were a lot of reasons floating around as to why we shouldn't take Wallstedt at 6. From other people. not me. Like I said, I was arguing all of the other dumb s*** nitf was saying... It wasn't about NOT taking Wallstedt at 6, it was about there being other viable options at 6. I was responding to marc, not you dumbass...

I'm as high on both of those guys as anyone, but let's be real, neither have played a single game in the NHL. Until that happens, I don't think you can say definitively that we have our 1D in Seider (I think we do), let alone our 1C in Raymond, who hasn't played center at any level for at least three seasons...

I never once argued that we shouldn't take Wallstedt. Right from the beginning I was saying I'd be okay with taking Wallstedt at 6. I was arguing all of the other dumb s*** isthefuture was saying. Like Wallstedt being the only top end talent available at 6, but other top end talent being available later in the draft... Or, and this was and continues to be the biggest argument, the importance of the position, and philosophy on how to build a team. My "story" is straight. You need to get your facts straight... He had the 10th overall pick that year and took Koekkoek. He clearly didn't think Vasilevskiy was the best player available at 10, let alone at 6.

That's not my standard. There is no "standard", which is the point... Chicago has won multiple Cups with Toews as their number one center. Boston has won a Cup with Bergeron as their number one center. Los Angeles has won multiple Cups with Kopitar as their number one center. St. Louis has won a Cup with O'Reilly as their number one center. All of these centers were 65-75ish point two-way centers in their Cup season (and most of their careers). So again, IF Larkin can get to that level (which you've already agreed with), he would be considered a 1C, and more than capable of winning a Stanley Cup, with the help around him (which he should have in a few years)... I don't think Larkin will ever be a Kopitar level center, popping off for 90+ points, while winning a Selke, but he absolutely could be an O'Reilly level center, 65+ points every season, in the Selke conversation. Larkin WILL be here for 6+ more seasons, and likely retire a Red Wing. Yzerman didn't make him the Red Wings captain, only to trade him away. If anyone recognizes the significance of being a captain of the Detroit Red Wings, it's Steve "The Captain" Yzerman.

Neither would be my first choice, but I would be fine with either. You know this, but keep banging that tired drum... Everyone here grew up watching those same Hall of Famers. Literally no one thinks Larkin is Yzerman or Fedorov. 25+ teams in the league don't have a player as good as either of those guys. If that's your standard, your Larkin is a 2C nonsense makes a little more sense, but also, you'll forever be disappointed, no matter who our 1C is. Which, like it or not, is going to be Larkin for the next 6+ seasons...

Sure you "want" more than that at 6th overall, but you'd be lucky to get that most year's at 6th overall, let alone a strange Covid year draft... We all want Yzerman to draft the best player available. A player we look back in three years and say he was the best player from this draft class. But I'd be more than happy if he can land a top line center, or a top pair defenseman, or even a number one goaltender...

A lot of uncertainty for sure. I still think there will end up being a lot of really good players come out of this draft. I agree. I'd be thrilled with either of these guys. 100% this. An Eklund - Raymond combo would be lethal, really fun to watch in a few years... #swedishtwins

IF Larkin gets back to 65-70 points per season, and continues solid play in the defensive end, he IS a legit 1C. That's not an opinion. That's a fact. You're comparing him to the elite top of the league 1C's, and he clearly isn't that. He has already proven though that he can be a top 20-30 center in the league. Cool, another future prediction... How is that a worry? Tkachuk is a very valuable player, legit top line guy, that any team would love to have. Basically a better version of Bertuzzi... If McTavish is a Tkachuk level player, sign me up, especially if he sticks to center (which I think he will)...

Obviously. If you haven't notice, the guy is really good at predicting the future...

If Larkin can continue lining up against the best players in the league every night, and bounce back to 60-70 points, he's a 1C. Far from an elite 1C, but a 1C nonetheless... I think that's a realistic bar for Larkin. If we land Wright next year, the rebuild is officially over. It probably should be by then anyway. IF Yzerman does take a center in this draft, that just makes one of (Larkin / Veleno / 2021 6th overall) expendable, or move one of them to wing. A great position to be in. Yeah, I strongly disagree. IF Yzerman were to take McTavish, I think Larkin / McTavish / Veleno could potentially be one of the better 3 center combos in the league.

This is pretty much where I'm at as well. For the first year ever, I wouldn't hate taking a goalie (Wallstedt) in the top 10. There are still a few players I'd prefer over him though.

I agree, but I wouldn't rule out McTavish becoming that top six C or even Edvinsson becoming that top four LD...

I can see Columbus taking McTavish.

Yeah, I have 3 or 4 guys I'm really high on, and he's definitely at the top of that list. Everyone knows how high I was on Raymond last year, and I think Eklund is in that same mold, but potentially at center. Granted, I also think Raymond would make a hell of a center, but that's a whole other conversation...

Yup, I definitely believe Eklund could be a center at the NHL level. Question is, does Yzerman and co. believe he can... He's definitely one of the most skilled players in the draft...

We have a 1C. His name is Dylan Larkin. The only way we get a center that slots above Larkin, is if we luck out in next year's draft lottery, and land Shane Wright (unlikely). There are 1B's to Larkin's 1A available in this draft, much like any other draft. I trust Yzerman to take the best player available, regardless of position. Even if it's another small, skilled (winger?) in William Eklund...

My concern with Luke is that he would be to the Hughes bothers as Jordan (or even worse, Jared...) is to the Staal brothers... Nah, really though, I'd like Hughes at 6, along with about 6 or 7 other guys at that spot... I'm thinking it will be one of the three Swedes (Eklund, Edvinsson, or Wallstedt)...

So 2 seasons were all because of Lidstrom. What about the other 2 seasons? I'm sure Doughty had nothing to do with any of Quick's better seasons... Everything you spew is nonsensical bulls***...

Nope, even Lidstrom couldn't help them win a Cup that year, but sure, if you want to suggest that the reason they didn't win was their 0.924 SV% goalie, you go right ahead... So if LA were "horse s***" the last few seasons, what were Detroit the last few seasons of Howard's career? Howard was also pretty consistently around that 0.915 mark (between 0.910-0.920), on much worse teams... Again, comprehension... The argument was never who was a better goalie, it was that they were both very average goalies... Maybe Quick was slightly better than Howard. So you're saying that we can win multiple Cups with a goalie slightly better than Howard? Okay... Nope. Winning a Cup is never "easy peasy"... It will always take a very good team, combined with a lot of luck. Literally no team has any of those players, or anything close, but yeah, we won't ever win again without them, or an ELITE goalie... That draft was never a two horse race. Every single person that was following that draft, leading up to it, knew MacKinnon was a MUCH better player, and he was always going to be the undisputed number one. Yes, Jones did fall to 4, because he was never really in the conversation for 1st overall. That was just media hype, just like every. single. draft. ever... You keep saying you're done, so be done. You don't give two s***s about my opinion, so stop replying...