krsmith17

Yeah, Turgeon's 0 points, -5, and 35% faceoff wins in 9 NHL games proves very valuable... I'm not all about trading Turgeon. I'm all about debunking your dumbass reasoning why such a trade would be "idiotic". Would it be a great trade? Probably not. Would it be a dumb trade like you're suggesting? Nope.

I just "demonstrated" how McCarron is "demonstratably better" than Turgeon, unless of course you don't like the stats I provided... Trades "for the heck of it" are made all the time... If we're talking about the player that "lazy fans like" more, it's Turgeon for me. I've long been a supporter of Turgeon and have said he deserves a shot as our 4th line center. That doesn't mean he's untouchable, or we shouldn't trade him for a better player. McCarron, in my opinion is a better player. You disagree, but get off your high horse and stop thinking you know better than everyone else. You don't.

I'm not sure about the 20 games in Detroit (I'd love to see it), but everything else I agree with. I'm hoping Cholowski and Seider are the top pairing in GR this season, while Hronek is ripping it up in Detroit.

Would you trade Svechnikov for Aho? Probably not. The Red Wings like Svechnikov because they drafted him, and have never showed any interest in Aho because they had a chance to draft him and didn't...

Turgeon being from Quebec and McCarron being from Michigan isn't the reason I'd make the trade, it's just an aside. What makes you think that McCarron for Turgeon wouldn't improve the team? Last season Turgeon put up a whopping 20 points in 72 games in Grand Rapids, and 0 points in 4 games in Detroit. McCarron put up 21 points in 32 games in Laval, and 1 point in 18 games in Montreal. Sure seems like an upgrade to me... Holland drafted Turgeon, and yes he did pass on McCarron to draft Mantha. I'd say that was a pretty good decision. But who's to say that they didn't really like McCarron too and maybe would have drafted him in the 2nd round instead of Nastasiuk... There's nothing to indicate that the Red Wings like any player outside of the organization, so with that logic, we should never make any trades...

It wasn't "my" trade proposal... Like I said though, why not?... These sorts of minor league trades are made all the time. Neither are likely to be anything more than depth guys. Give the Michigan native a chance to play in Michigan (Detroit or Grand Rapids) and give the Quebec native a chance to play in Quebec (Montreal or Laval)...

Mantha did not have Larkin centering him at the WC. He still produced. Like most top six wingers, Mantha needs a quality center that can get him the puck. When he gets the puck in a quality scoring area, he's more dangerous than anyone on the team. The one area that Athanasiou is better than Mantha, is self creating, because of his speed. Pretty much every other aspect of the game, Mantha has him beat.

Sure. Why not?

I know at this point it's baiting, but I'll take the bait. Mantha > Athanasiou Mantha will have more goals, assists and points than AA this season. Mark it.

You're crazy.

Yeah, we need elite talent, and if we have a chance to draft a stud, a possible "generational" player, I don't care what position he plays. Also, despite this whole debate, if we were lucky enough to draft Lafreniere, I probably wouldn't even care to try him at center, unless Veleno falls short of becoming (what I believe he will) a high end 2C. I posted my dream top 9 a while back... Bertuzzi - Larkin - Zadina Lafreniere - Veleno - Mantha Rasmussen - Athanasiou - Hirose / Svechnikov / Berggren

Going head to head against the best competition on Earth, would I rather have a guy who's played center that is probably better suited on the wing or a guy who's played wing, and *might* be just as good at center, is also, bigger, stronger and better... Hmmmm...I'll have to think about this one.

In general terms I would agree that switching from wing to center is a lot harder and doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the average player. Lafreniere is not an average player though. Lafreniere is not Athanasiou... or I should say Athanasiou is not Lafreniere. Not even close. Asking any young player to go up against Connor McDavid is a tall order. I'm sure you'll disagree, but I'd rather have winger converted center Lafreniere going head to head against McDavid next year, than natural center Hughes going head to head against McDavid this year. Anyway, I'm done with this. Lafreniere probably won't ever play center full time in the NHL. I still think he could and maybe even should, but whatever.

Exactly. He may be better as a winger, but there's also a very strong possibility that he could be way better as a center, and thus have more of an impact on the game. The way he plays the game, I find it hard to believe he wouldn't be able to make the transition.

Could be, but I just find it hard to believe that a player as talented as Lafreniere wouldn't thrive at center... He has the frame, speed, playmaking ability, and most importantly the mind for the game to be an elite center. Maybe he can't win a faceoff to save his life... If we were talking about an ordinary top 5 pick, or an undersized player, or whatever, this wouldn't be a discussion. But Lafreniere is a special, special player, being compared to the likes of Crosby and McDavid. Anyway, we'll see what happens. He'll likely stay on the wing, but it will be interesting to see if he sees any time at center...

Exactly. My point was never that Lafreniere will likely be a center in the NHL. It's much more likely that he's a winger. However, it is not as difficult (or dumb) as kipwinger seems to think, to transition from wing to center. A player like Lafreniere, with a high, high hockey IQ and all the raw tools, could seamlessly make the transition, if he and the team that drafts him see fit. I agree. He is a good enough player that it wouldn't matter. He's going to be an impact player no matter where he is on the ice. However, there's a reason most elite players with his talent and skill set play the center position. It's the position that has the most impact on the game (outside of the goaltender). Would Crosby and McDavid be elite wingers? Absolutely. Would they have as much impact on the game on the wing? I don't think so. Would Hall be an elite center if he had made the switch 10 years ago? I think so. Would he have more of an impact on the game at center? I think so. I find it odd that Lafreniere has never played any / much center at this point in his young career. He plays the game like a center. Maybe he just doesn't like it. Maybe he prefers the wing. Who knows... Regardless, at this point, I think he's likely to remain on the wing... but I also think he'd be better suited at center...

Yeah, Larkin will be captain. It's just a matter of when it'll be made official. In training camp? Opening night? There's not a single other player on the team that would make sense. It will 100% be Larkin.

I'm not advocating turning Lafreniere into a center, I just think it's beyond dumb to assume he (or any other winger) can't become a legit centerman. If we did luck out and won the lottery next year, I would still likely have Larkin - Veleno as our 1-2 punch, with some combination of Lafreniere, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Athanasiou, Zadina and Rasmussen on the wings.

Are you this big a tool in real life? Or is it all just an online persona, to escape how miserable you really are?

How is that backpedaling? I'd say the odds of him switching is relatively low. Therefore, I wouldn't bet on it. It still wouldn't surprise me if he did make the switch. I'm saying it's possible as in he has all the physical tools and capabilities to be an elite center, not it's possible, as in "anything is possible"... You seem to think switching from wing to center is some insurmountable feat. It's not. It's happened before and it'll happen again. The only thing that is stupid or idiotic is the fact that you think something as simple as a positional change is "impossible". My guess is you never watched Claude "F*cking" Giroux play junior either... "Giroux’s greatest talent is his playmaking ability. Boasting excellent hands and great vision, the diminutive winger is able to use his quick skating ability to turn something out of nothing. Giroux, despite his size disadvantage, does not mind getting his nose dirty, and will stand in to take a hit in order to make a play. He does get bodied often, but the shifty winger is agile enough to avoid checks on a regular basis. Giroux’s size may have been a hindrance in the old NHL, however, he appears to be a prototypical product for the net NHL, with blazing speed and dynamite skill. He has the potential to be a first-line winger." Or Sebastian "F*cking" Aho... "A very competitive buzzsaw-type winger who will wear the opposition down in their own end. Strong on his skates and has room for even more growth in that department. Excellent puckhandling ability and finesse; controls plays with form and function. Can try to do too much, but that will go away with time and maturity. All-in-all, a winger that loves to compete and be hard to play against."

After a quick google search, I came up with a few names... I'm not sure if all are 100% accurate, but I know some of them are... Apparently Bryan Little, Claude Giroux, Evgeny Kuznetsov, Sebastian Aho, Pierre Luc-Dubois, among others, played primarily on the wing prior to being drafted, and all are high end centers in the league today. I'm sure there are many other examples as well...

The problem is that you're confusing my argument with Jonas' argument... I never said that I think Lafreniere will play center in the NHL one day... I said that he definitely could play center in the NHL if the team that drafted him, wanted him to. You act like it's impossible for a winger to learn how to play center. It's not at all. Far from it. Why would I place a bet on something I believe is unlikely to happen? For the umpteenth time... I don't necessarily think Lafreniere will play center. I think that he has all the tools to be an elite forward, whether that's at his natural position, on the wing, or he makes a seamless transition to center.