krsmith17

Meh. I think Osgood was the definition of an average goaltender. He put up good, unremarkable numbers his whole career. He did have a couple playoff runs where he was able to turn it on. Much like so many average NHL goaltenders have done / have the ability to do. Exactly, he would have never taken over for prime (or even average) Hasek. He took over for 43 year old "running out of gas" Hasek. And did a phenomenal job that playoff run. Yes, I'm sure Howard does wish he was on a stacked team his entire career, and won multiple Cups...

I'm not "making excuses" for Howard at all. He was an average goalie. Which isn't a bad thing at all, because again, teams have proven and continue to prove that you can win with average goaltending. Howard had more good seasons (above 0.920 SV%) than Quick, and he will likely finish with a very similar SV% (maybe slightly better). They were both very average goalies. No. Quick won the Conn Smythe because, like I said, he was lights out for that playoff run. He was elite that postseason (and very good in another). That doesn't mean he was an elite goalie... Both goalies hovered around that 0.915 mark. Hence their average... I don't really blame you for not wanting to "get into another stupid pointless s***" with me... Quick was not better. He just happened to play on better teams... Yes. Only drafting one (Howard), or two if you want to include Mrazek, average goaltenders in 3 decades is pretty f***ing bad. But we still won 4 Stanley Cups in that time, with goalies drafted (in the 3rd round), signed in free agency, and traded for... I'm not at all saying that Detroit has been good at drafting goalies (they clearly haven't been). What I am saying is that they've had a TON of success, despite their inability to draft / develop elite goaltenders. So have a lot of other teams... Reading / comprehension is hard... Again, I said "not including MacKinnon". Everyone "knew" MacKinnon would be elite. No one "knew" Jones would be elite. There were question marks in his game, and for that reason, he dropped to Nashville at 4th overall...

Yes. Quick had one really good season; 2011-12, where he had a 0.928 SV%. Other than that season, his best SV% was 0.921. Good, not great. Howard had four seasons of 0.927, 0.926, 0.924, and 0.923. But "Quick was one of the best goalies in the league" in his prime, and "Howard was average" in his prime... Both were average with the ability to turn it on. Both had the ability to win Cups. Quick won Cups because of the team in front of him. Howard didn't win Cups, because of the team in front of him... You keep saying we've done a horrible job over the past 3 decades, as if we haven't won 4! (FOUR!) Stanley Cups in that time... No. I don't know it. Neither do you. Neither does anyone, including McKenzie, Button, Pronman, Wheeler, Ferrari, Scouch, or whoever the f*** else you might read / listen to... I said not including McDavid. No one "knew" Jones was going to be a number one defenseman, anymore than anyone "knows" that Beniers is going to be a number two center...

To be fair, I don't think you can really use Detroit not being good at drafting goalies as a reason to not take Wallstedt at 6 (a consensus top 10 pick). Maybe you can use Detroit not being good at developing goalies as a reason to not take Wallstedt. But even then, with a whole new regime under Yzerman, no longer Holland, I'm not sure if that's a good enough reason either. For me, it just comes down to building / drafting philosophy. I prefer to build a young core of skaters and worry about the net later. Thus using all of my high picks on skaters. Maybe that's what Yzerman will do. Maybe not. Maybe he'll see Wallstedt as too good a prospect to pass on. Nobody has any idea what Yzerman is going to do with that first pick. I just hope whoever he drafts becomes a top 3-5 pick in this draft regardless of position.

Goalies, whether they're worth taking high in the draft, and the importance of the position compared to other positions... basically...

Yes, 2 time Cup winner, which was my point, and Conn Smythe was in that 2012 Cup run (his only really good season)... Howard retired with a career 0.912 SV%, while Quick currently has a 0.913 SV%, with likely some bad years ahead of him, if he continues his current trend, and the same downward trend Jimmy had at the end of his career... Either way, you can't really argue that a LOT of really good teams have won it all with average goaltending over the years. Not many average teams have been carried by elite goaltending. I think Price will be the closest we've seen in forever, but will come up just short... Sure. It could. It could also end up being a 2013 draft (without a MacKinnon) or a 2015 (without a McDavid or Eichel). For all we know a dozen (or more) guys end up being really, really good NHLers... Skip to 1:05 of this video...

Quick had one or two seasons where he was lights out. Outside of that, he was pretty average. Same goes for the other guys mentioned, including Howard. I don't think we need to be "super stacked", but we definitely need to add two or three elite players. If that's in goal, great, but it wouldn't be the way I'd construct a team. Maybe some of those pieces are already in the system (Seider? Raymond?)... Maybe we take the best skater at 6 and he becomes one of those pieces (Eklund? Hughes?)... Maybe we luck out and get a top two pick in next year's draft (Wright? Lambert?)...

Yes, Howard was an average goaltender. That, we do agree on. What we disagree on, bringing us back to the root of this entire debate... You can win a Stanley Cup with average goaltending... We did it in 2008 with Osgood. Chicago did it in 2010 with Niemi, and twice with Crawford in '13 and '15. LA did it twice with Quick in '12 and '14. Pittsburgh did it twice with Murray in '16 and '17. None of these goaltenders were significantly better than Howard, and none of these goaltenders were 1st round picks, let alone top 10 picks...

Except for the fact that this isn't true... We HAVE drafted a goaltender good enough to win a Stanley Cup in the past 30 years. Jimmy Howard at his peak was more than capable of winning a Stanley Cup. He was far from the reason we didn't win. The reason we didn't win in the past dozen years, is because we didn't have enough young, elite talent on the ice. The reason we didn't have elite skaters, was because from 2001-2012 we only had 4 1st round picks (all varying degrees of busts including a goaltender), and up until 4 years ago, we haven't had a single top 10 pick, and still haven't had a single top 3 pick. Maybe we draft one that pans out this year. Or maybe we do what half of the other Stanley Cup caliber teams are doing, and trade for one, or sign one in free agency...

Okay. I think I'm starting to get it... Teams have done their homework on players "projected" to go in the 1st round, but not on players "projected" to go beyond the 1st round... There won't be any top line talent available at 6, but there will be top line talent available in the latter 1st and 2nd round... It all makes sense now...

No doubt Yzerman needs to and will address the goaltender situation (or lack thereof) in the next year or so. If he thinks Wallstedt is that guy, and sees him as best player available at 6, cool. If he thinks there's a better player available at 6, and thinks he can get Cossa at 23, great. I still think the best route to acquire a goaltender is to trade for one. If he can swing a trade with his old buddy BriseBois to get Alnefelt, that would be an immediate replacement (upgrade?) over Petruzzelli.

Holland drafted Rasmussen. Yzerman drafted Seider and Raymond. Completely different regime. This draft is extremely under scouted. I highly doubt it's as weak as some are saying. I guarantee there will be top line / pair talent available at 6 (I trust Yzerman to take said talent), and I'll bet when we look back on this draft in a few years, we'll see that it wasn't really THAT weak of a draft after all... I never once said I want to draft Eklund specifically. Again, there are half a dozen or so guys I'd be okay with drafting at 6. I trust Yzerman to make the right decision. Although I kind of want Edvinsson now... LOL I also don't think if we do draft Eklund, it's the be-all, end-all that he's developed into a center. I do however know that he has played center in the past (switched to wing as a 17/18 year old in a men's league), and if Yzerman (or whoever drafts him) wants to develop him into a center, he has the skill and ability to make it happen.

Yes, there will be top line talent available at 6. You know how I know that? Because there has been top line talent available at 6 in every single draft ever. This year will be no different. Oh, and also, someone told me there would be top line talent available in the 2nd round, so there's that too... Every one of these podcast guys can watch every single game Eklund plays, and say he "projects more as a winger than center". That's not going to change what Yzerman thinks, or how Yzerman will want to develop him. I haven't watched a single game Ekland has played in the SHL. Just some highlights, and the same podcasts and articles you've listened to / read. I'm not pretending to know that he will develop into a center. All I'm saying is that maybe, just maybe Yzerman thinks he can develop into a center. I've never said he wasn't. I've thought (like most people) that it was a strong possibility after Yzerman was asked in his last presser. It's even more likely now, but still hasn't happened yet. I'm not the one trying to tell people "I called Raymond to Detroit, and now I'm calling Wallstedt to Detroit. I was right last year so I'm obviously going to be right this year"...

So there's not elite talent available at 6. Is there elite talent available at 8/9? I've named about 7 players that I'd be okay with taking at 6, that I think could be elite. I'm not going to pretend to know one way or the other though. I'll leave that to Yzerman. Oh, people on podcasts think he will be a winger. That's that then. Too bad the team that drafts him doesn't have any say in that... Raymond is elite #everybodylovesraymond Don't want / need Eklund ... No. I'm saying, again, Seider was a "late riser" because some of these draft "analysts" caught wind that some teams (Detroit and maybe Edmonton) were interested in him... I never once said you didn't say those things. I'm sure you did. What I'm saying is that you weren't the only one saying those things (many others did as well), and you're not special for predicting Raymond to Detroit, or Petruzzelli potentially (hasn't happened yet) walking. Yes. We'll see what happens. Only a few more weeks...

Right. Trade down because we have a better shot at getting a top line player in the 2nd round than 6th overall... Hughes and Wallstedt are obviously the only two players projected to be elite in the top six. All the other elite players will be taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds... I don't know. You tell me. Do we need an elite player, in the same mold as Raymond? I'd do it. Always BPA. You can trade from a position of strength to fill a position of weakness later. Besides, Eklund has played some center. There's no reason to think the Red Wings can't develop him as a center. Ice time matter, but like it or not, Eklund is a very similarly skilled player as Raymond. Do you really think that Tony Ferrari's rankings have any bearing on what Yzerman (or any GM) is going to do on draft day? What's your point? You're far from the only one that seen this as a possibility. The Red Wings have been a disaster at drafting / developing goalies in the past 30 years. Absolutely. You know what was the one constant in those 30 years? Ken Holland. You know what is different for the past two years? Steve Yzerman. You know who drafted the goaltender you keep raving about, that is about to win back-to-back Stanley Cups? Steve Yzerman. Maybe trust the guy that found Vasilevskiy in the late 1st round. Maybe he can find a goaltender with one of our other 7 picks in the first three rounds... But IF he takes Wallstedt with that first pick, cool. Maybe we have our Vasilevskiy...

Talking to a literal f***ing wall... Saying it slowly didn't help... Maybe if a scream it... I WOULD BE OKAY WITH WALLSTEDT AT 6TH OVERALL!!! (just wouldn't be my first choice)... So it's Wallstedt at 6 or bust for you? Bernier would also have back-to-back Cups on that team... I know how much you love(d) the Raymond pick. Me too. You think he has the potential to be elite, one of the best players from a fairly strong draft class. But you don't think Eklund has that same sort of potential in this draft class? Eklund nearly doubled Raymond in points in their respective draft seasons. Hell, he even had a better draft season, than Raymond had draft+1 season. But yeah, there's no elite talent in this draft at all. If we don't take Wallstedt, we're obviously going to end up with "another Rasmussen"... Seider was "moving up late", because people caught wind that teams at the top (Detroit) were interested in him. Not because random draft "analysts" all of a sudden seen something in him... If Yzerman thought Robertsson was the best player at 6, there's not a doubt in my mind he would take him there. Same goes for McTavish, Guenther, Clarke, Wallstedt, etc. What does me being here have to do with anything? You're claiming you were the only one that called Raymond to Detroit. I was here for that, and you weren't. You're also claiming that you were the only one that called Petruzzelli walking. I wasn't here for that, but I was still alive, reading other social media outlets, where others suggested the possibility as well... Predicting those two things doesn't make you special. Nor does it mean that you'll be right about Yzerman taking Wallstedt...

My opinion is that he's very well respected around the league, and if for whatever reason, Yzerman does let him walk in a couple years, he would be hired by another team within weeks.

I don't know what elite skater we're getting at 6. That's Yzerman's job. Maybe you should look back at the Cup winning teams the past 15-20 and check to see how many didn't have elite skaters on their team... How about how many teams won it all because of elite goaltending... Absolutely I do. There's not a single team today that is winning Cups with a dozen Hall of Famer's, and very few are winning on the backs of elite goaltending. So we'll see top line guys taken in the 2nd round and beyond, but there won't be any available at 6th overall?... LOL If Yzerman thinks Robertsson is a top line guy, and none of the "consensus" top 10 guys are top line guys, you bet your ass he will take the player he deems best player available. I think he proved that with the Seider pick... Nope, you haven't called s***, but keep stroking your ego... Yeah, I'd prefer to not use a top 10 pick on a goaltender, but I'll say it again, and I'll even slow it down for you... I w o u l d b e o k a y w i t h W a l l s t e d t a t 6 t h o v e r a l l . . . (just wouldn't be my first choice). You're literally getting worked up because I would prefer to draft skaters at the top of the draft, rather than a goalie. Keep in mind, I'm not one of the people that are vehemently against it...

So I guess you expect to get your boi Wallstedt at 23rd overall?

Yzerman's words. I can get why you believe a grown man has nothing left to learn though. I'm sure you finished "developing" at the age of 14...

AGAIN, I'm not completely opposed to taking Wallstedt with our first pick. Just wouldn't be my first choice. I have a feeling it won't be Yzerman's first choice at that spot either. We'll see. We definitely need to find our goaltender of the future. There's no debating that. What there is debating, is how that goaltender should be acquired. Yzerman could draft a goalie this year using a 1st round pick, but it doesn't have to be 6th overall. He could also trade for one, maybe even acquire one taking on a bad contract. Or yes, he could acquire one via free agency. None of Sheahan, Svechnikov or Smith were drafted 6th overall. Not even close.

4:30 of this video... I'm not saying "he needs more time" to develop. I'm saying that he's still developing, just like any player, or any regular Joe, working a regular job. I think Blashill is a good coach, and I think he will continue to improve, as the team improves. But sure, Yzerman is purposely keeping a bad coach around to guide all of our young, up-and-coming talent. And once they improve (not sure how they will with such a bad coach), Yzerman will then let him go. Makes a ton of sense...

Ok, so we have to wait and see if 20 year old Seider (the top prospect not yet in the NHL) is a future Norris caliber defenseman, but we already know that 18 year old Wallstedt is a future Vezina caliber goalie... Okay... Yes, because you don't need elite goaltending to win Cups. You do however, need elite skaters. Ok, so now go back and read these multiple people saying that Beniers is a future 2C, and pull the quote where they say that there won't be a single top line forward, or top pair defenseman available beyond the top 5... There's no way you believe there's not a single top line / pair talent in this draft... You haven't "called" s***. There's been speculation that Petruzzelli might not sign, and become a free agent for months. You're not the only one that seen that as a possibility. Same goes for you "calling" Raymond last year, so everyone should listen to you this year. You weren't the only one that "called" Raymond. I also wanted / thought Yzerman might take Raymond last year... According to what logic exactly? I've never said anything to suggest that I don't think a goalie will ever get drafted in the top 10... In fact, I said I wouldn't be too upset if Yzerman took Wallstedt at 6th overall... Literally no one is saying that goaltending isn't a need for the Red Wings. Everyone sees it as a glaring need, just that most don't want to use a 6th overall pick to fill the need...

Coaches, much like players, need to develop. Blashill is no different. Maybe Yzerman lets Blashill walk as soon as the team turns it around. Or maybe he sees all the hard work he put in, and lets him see it through. Give him a chance with a legit NHL lineup.

Yes, a lot of work to do. For me, that starts with finding our next franchise player (skater), not goaltender. Again, unless Yzerman thinks Wallstedt is head and shoulders above everyone else. No team has the best defenseman to have ever played the game, but if everything goes well with Seider, he should be a top 5 defenseman in the league. Osgood drafted in the 3rd round in '91. Howard drafted in the 2nd round in 2003. Mrazek drafted in the 5th round in 2010. Sounds like we're soon due for another mid round pick to hit... LOL please show me a single reputable draft "expert" that says that there won't be a single top end player in the draft (or available beyond the top 5)... Literally no one is saying that... Yes, I'm sure you know what Yzerman is going to do...