krsmith17

I pretty much agree with everything you said CRL. One thing though, I'm pretty sure head coaches usually have a big say in who their assistants will be. For that reason, I think Ferschweiler was likely on his way out anyway, and I'm not so sure Blashill is necessarily on the hot seat. I've been a little disappointed so far in the Yzerman era. I wasn't a fan of any of the free agent signings. Not that any of them are bad, I just don't think any of them were necessary, aside from the goaltender (Pickard) for Grand Rapids. I was a big Filppula fan, so for that reason, I'm happy he's back and has a chance to retire with the organization that drafted him. But outside of that, I don't think he was needed. Of course, I'm also of the opinion that Athanasiou or Helm could play center until Veleno is ready (and that could be sooner than a lot of people think). The Nemeth signing still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. We already have a log jam on defense. Unless one or two of the vets are known to be out long term, or a trade is coming, I don't like the signing. Again, neither signing hurts us long term, but neither really help us short term or long term either... Aside from the Seider pick, I was pretty disappointed with much of the draft (the 2nd round in particular). I was hoping for a couple really savvy moves to gain assets, like trading for Marleau or Callahan. It's still really early, and hopefully Yzerman plans on stockpiling picks at the deadline. I agree though, C is around where I'm at as well right now.

Ottawa was on his No Trade list as well, but he waived to go there. Probably because no other teams were calling... He probably would have waived to come to Detroit as well IF we wanted him. Not getting Zaitsev is a good thing though. We've had enough mediocre defensemen paid too much for too long over the years. Time for a complete overhaul of the D corps...

Veleno made his season debut tonight, and Drummondville stomped Shawinigan 12-1. Unfortunately, Joe was only in on two of the twelve goals scored with a goal and an assist, but hey, it's a start. So, through one game, he's on a 2 PTS/G pace, and I fully expect him to continue that pace through the full season. McIsaac is still out with injury.

Because Holland would have drafted / signed different players that may or may not be better or worse than the one's that Yzerman drafted / signed... obviously...

Why is this still a thing? Milan Lucic was just traded and we still have people talking about "untradeable contacts"? There. is. no. such. thing. as. an. untradeable. contract...

Red Wings have had varying degrees of bad contracts (Nielsen, Abdelkader, Ericsson, Daley) on the books for the past several years. Holland doesn't do a damn thing to get rid of any of them. Goes to Edmonton and immediately trades the worst contract in the NHL. I think this once again proves that there are no untradeable players / contracts. Also, Holland did show too much loyalty to some underperforming players. I'm hoping this is one area that changes under Yzerman...

If you're going to save the quote, you better save the whole quote... Seriously though, I'm excited to see what Berggren could do, but I need to remind myself that he could be another Jurco. The Big 5 I mentioned, I think are safe bets to all become regular NHLers, and I believe at least 3 of them will be high, high end...

And my point is that we've never had this many prospects of this caliber before. Seider, Hronek, Cholowski, Zadina, Veleno are all prospects that won't fail. Certainly not half of them... They may not all reach their ceilings, but I'd bet on at least a couple of them to, and the ones that don't will still be good NHLers. McIsaac, Regula, Lindstrom, Tuomisto, Svechnikov, Berggren are the prospects we're used to having in the system that we get really excited about. Some of them could pan out, but half of them could completely flop, like we've seen in the past.

Well considering we were top 10 on most boards last year, I would assume we moved up a bit since then. I'd think we're top 5 or so in the league in prospects, with a solid young core already graduated. I was high on Jurco and Smith (Sproul too), not so much Pulkkinen though. You love bringing up when people were wrong, but never when people were right. Remember when everyone was super high on Ouellet and Marchenko and I said they both sucked. I also said for year's that Jensen was the best of the lot, and he clearly was. I also said Saarijarvi wouldn't amount to s*** and Hronek would be very good. You can keep bringing up the times I was wrong, but I've been right plenty as well... Of course not all of our prospects will pan out, but we haven't had prospects of this caliber for over 20 years, maybe longer. So yes, I'm very optimistic with the group of players / prospects we have in the organization.

And have one of the better prospect pools in the league. Of course we still need a lot of things to go right, but we're headed in the right direction. If the majority of our prospects develop the way we expect them to, we should be a playoff team within a couple years, and a contender shortly after that.

We had the cap space to make that deal, and we have the cap space to make similar deals, but for whatever reason we haven't / likely aren't going to. Maybe the Leafs didn't want to trade Marleau to the Wings, giving a divisional rival a 1st round pick. We could still make a similar deal, if there's a team out there that wants to trade a bad contract with one or two years remaining. Cap space isn't a problem for this team right now, and certainly won't be in the near future.

Fair enough. I still don't really agree, simply because I do believe QoC has a significant impact on production. I think it's kind of foolish to say it doesn't, but whatever. I honestly have no idea where this Mantha "love affair" is coming from. I like him as much as any really good player that has ever played for the Red Wings. No more, no less. If people were always ragging on Larkin, or any other top player on the team, I'd defend them the same way I do Mantha. Well at least we agree on the underlined. As for the bold, this is why I think it's completely reasonable to suggest that any of the three are the better goal scorer. It'll be interesting to see if either will be able to make some separation in the "best goal scorer" department this season...

Do you think the notion that Mantha is the better goal scorer to be controversial? Again, my initial point was that both are very good goal scorers, but I'd personally give the slight edge to Mantha. I know a LOT of other Wings fans would too. Of course there are fans that think Athanasiou is the better goal scorer, which is understandable since they are / have been that close their entire pro careers. Buppy thinks it's crazy that Mantha could possibly be considered a slightly better goal scorer. He thinks the only reasonable way to quantify that is G/60, and quality of competition should be thrown out the window. It's dumb...

Yeah, it's Blashill's fault... What about team Canada selection for the World Championship? I'm sure Hockey Canada felt Athanasiou was the better goal scorer / player, but decided to go with the lesser Mantha... He was pretty invisible without Larkin in that tournament wasn't he?

Yeah, okay. Quality of competition is not a stat at all... If I asked, which player is faster, Athanasiou or Mantha? Most people would say Athanasiou, would they not? But how do we know Athanasiou is faster when there's no stat for it??? What is Athanasiou's speed? Specifically, not just some vague and unsubstantiated "really fast" nonsense. Like how fast is he at top speed? And on an average shift? Then provide the same data for Mantha... I don't know about you, but most people know Athanasiou is faster because we watch the games... Most people also know that Mantha plays against tougher competition most nights because we watch the games... The Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi line and top lines in general get matched up against the opposition's best most nights. That's not exactly a secret. That then leaves Athanasiou playing against weaker competition. If you don't think quality of competition effects player output in any way, just because there's not a specific stat I can reference, this conversation is dumber than I thought... Buppy is always trying to split hairs, and always thinks he's the smartest person in the room (he's not)... I think Mantha is the better scorer. Most Wings fans would agree with that. Hell, I'm sure the coach agrees with that, which is why Mantha is constantly on the top line and Athanasiou is constantly on the 2nd / 3rd line. He's fighting this as if I said Mantha is an elite goal scorer and Athanasiou sucks, when in reality I said that both are very good goal scorers (very comparable, capable of 30+ goals each), but I'd give the *slight* edge to Mantha. I agree that we shouldn't be in any rush to trade either Mantha or Athanasiou (although I would if the right deal came along), which was my point to begin with...

Yeah, let's dismiss quality of competition, because you say it's a worthless stat. Let's only consider goals per 60, because you assume that's the most telling stat. Let's only look at one season, a season that happens to be Athanasiou's breakout season and a season where Mantha suffered a hand injury. I'm going to cherry pick the 2017-18 season, since it's the only full season Mantha played without a hand injury... Mantha had 1.04 G/60 that season and Athanasiou had 0.88 G/60. Or better yet, let's wait to see how this next season plays out to see who is the better goal scorer. My bet is on Mantha. We'll see.

So dumb. You've clearly never read a single scouting report on any of these players or NHL players in general. I'm done here.

More trolling?

No, my argument right from the beginning was that Athanasiou is very good at creating opportunities on his own. He's the fastest and one of the most skilled players on the team. Why else do you think he's constantly playing lower in the lineup? "Only do that if it supports my argument"... Yeah, kind of the way you completely dismissed the 10 games Mantha put up 8 goals... Didn't really jive with the point you were trying to make, so leave those games out... Right, let's not use quality of competition. That doesn't fit your argument either... Mantha is and has been a better goal scorer his entire career. Athanasiou creates a ton of opportunities himself, and he capitalizes on a lot of those opportunities. You're acting as if I'm saying Athanasiou is not a good goal scorer, or Mantha is far superior. I'm not. Athanasiou is a great goal scorer. One of the best on the team.

I would describe Larkin as a two-way forward. I guess you're not sure what that is either? Yes, a playmaker is a player that is a very good passer and can set up his teammates. Usually pass first mentality. I know this must all be very difficult for you to grasp...

I didn't mention his linemates... As I said, Athanasiou can self create, better than anyone on the team and most guys in the entire league. I also never said Athanasiou is not a top six winger... I just like him in a middle six role, for the reason stated above. "Virtually identical rates". "Overall rates are very similar". Mantha did have the slight edge, no? I guess I was right in saying that I'd give the slight edge to Mantha then... Again, I don't think there's a huge difference in overall goal scoring ability between the two, but I do think Mantha is slightly better.

Are those three loose definitions really all that different though? All define what I believe to be a "goal scorer". Better than your definition of any player that scores a goal... Yes, I suppose any player could be a goal scorer, but like I said, I highly doubt I would consider either of Rasmussen or Bertuzzi to be goal scorers at any point in their NHL careers. Our team was ranked 21st in goals for, with the majority of our best young forwards already on the team. Veleno and Zadina should make a difference in a few years. Veleno, setting guys up (playmaker), and Zadina, scoring goals (goal scorer). Maybe a Berggren or another player surprises, but aside from that, Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi and Athanasiou are our core forwards. Our team was ranked 27th in goals against, with the majority of our best young defensemen yet to see full time duty in the NHL. Hronek and Cholowski played half seasons as rookies. We just drafted Seider who could be a stud. We also have a whole slew of other young defensemen that could surprise. Kronwall, Ericsson and Daley are all past their prime / bad. I think our defense is much better going forward. You disagree, and that's fine. Regardless though, I think it would be dumb to trade our best goal scorer, plus possibly other assets for a top 4 defenseman.

Sure, completely arbitrary. Isn't most everything we discuss here just that? Hence being "my definition". If you think any player that scores a goal should be labeled a "goal scorer", by all means... I think a goal scorer is a player that has a lethal shot and can score from anywhere on the ice, in a multitude of different ways. Again, my definition. Rasmussen very well may become a goal scorer, but as of now, I don't see it. Same with Bertuzzi. Larkin could be labeled a goal scorer. Stamkos has been one of the better goal scorers in the league for the past decade, so yeah, I'd consider him a "goal scorer" for sure.

In more games against lesser competition. If you think that doesn't change anything, cool, but it absolutely does.

The key is not getting into a situation that the Leafs are currently in, where they don't have the cap space to sign their core players. Offer sheets rarely happen, and even more rare do they actually work. My point was just that they can work if done properly.