krsmith17

Is it just me or is who the Wings select at 6 this year much more controversial than in year's past? I've heard Wings fans say they would love/ hate if the Wings draft each of Zegras, Caufield, Cozens, Dach, Krebs, Podkolzin at one point or another...

I don't disagree with that though... What we were debating is how much they will make after this season as RFA's...

"Being a screw". AKA Being a good general manager.

Helm (retain half his salary) for Puljujarvi...

Yes, goals, not points. No, you can't force them to sign, but if they want out, you can trade them. The Trouba example is a poor one. That was an awful trade, and the whole situation was handled poorly. I have more faith in Yzerman than to muck that up as bad as Cheveldayoff did.

Who said anything about using one of them on the 3rd pair? It could just as easily be Cholowski on the 3rd pair and Fabbro / Bean on the 2nd pair. Regardless who's slotted where though, having a "top pair" defenseman playing on your 2nd pair and a "2nd pair" defenseman playing on your bottom pair is the dream. Also, balance. If all three end up being exactly the same, and all three end up being our top three defensemen, I'd be okay with spreading them out across three pairings. Again, I have no idea what it would cost to get either of those guys, but I'd pull the trigger if it were within reason. I wasn't saying we should trade Athanasiou or any other established player, just that IF we were trading an established player, like Athanasiou, I'd rather go after a proven prospect than a crap shoot draft pick... That's what myself and NITF were disagreeing on... I'm not convinced our d corp is anything special yet. I'm sure you remember, not too long ago, fans raving about the next wave of Jensen, Sproul, Ouellet, Backman and Marchenko... I think what we have now is a huge upgrade to that crop, but I'm not convinced any are true top pair guys yet. I think Hronek and Cholowski could be, but I wouldn't place any bets yet. Who knows what we have in McIsaac and Lindstrom at this point. I'm optimistic, but if we can add to it, I would for sure.

Why are you restricting it to "top four"? Why not top six? You can't have a top six consisting of three highly skilled offensive defensemen? I find it hard to believe that "any cost is too high"...

I have no doubt that Fabbro and Bean will be good NHlers. Will they be top pair guys? I think so, but who knows... I have no idea if they would be worth the cost, since I have no idea what the cost would be. What do you think it would cost? I don't think our stable of young defensemen is near good enough. I'm okay with continuing to add through the draft, and eventually free agency, but if we could snag a high end defensive prospect for a reasonable price, of course you do it.

Again, if they're putting up 30-35 points yearly, there's ZERO chance Yzerman allows them to walk. He would either trade them, and get a massive haul, or sign them to market value once they hit UFA. Assuming they continue on the same trajectory, barring a massive upswing in production, they will not exceed $6M as RFA's. If one of Athanasiou or Mantha are moved, it will be AA. I agree. I've never said otherwise. What are you talking about? Nielsen is better than Athanasiou? In what world?

No disagreement there... If that's the case, so be it. I'm definitely not opposed to trading Athanasiou.

I was never advocating trading Athanasiou for a top D prospect. I was just saying that if we're making a trade for defensive help, it would be wiser to do so far a known (prospect), than an unknown (draft pick). I also think a top 10 pick is more "untouchable" than the prospects we've been discussing.

Yzerman has already shown that he's willing to play hard ball with RFA's. If Athanasiou demands X amount of dollars and Yzerman doesn't believe he's worth X amount of dollars, he will ship him out. IF Athanasiou files for arbitration, gets a one year contract, Yzerman will not allow him to walk as a free agent next offseason. He will trade his ass at some point next season for a solid return. Likely scenario IF Athanasiou puts up 60 points next season: Athanasiou asks for $6.5M, Yzerman offers $4.5M. They eventually meet in the middle and settle around $5.5M.

It absolutely does matter that they're two years older... They won't sign a long-term deal? What's your point? I didn't say anything about term. I said both will sign for under $6M. I personally think they will lock them up for at least 4-5 years at that hit though. A very poor example that fits your argument... I'm as high on Mantha as anyone, but I don't think he will put up 75-85 points. I think he could on a more talented team. On this team, he could possibly reach 75 if literally everything goes right, but even then, probably not... Why? Athanasiou >>> Nielsen, and it's not even close...

Nielsen was our 3C for the latter part of last season. Athanasiou was our 2C. I think it will start that way this coming season as well. Until Veleno proves to be ready that is...

You think a team would need to offer up a Rantanen caliber player in order to get a prospect that has only played a handful of NHL games? Yeah, okay...

Nielsen is our 3C, so yes Veleno could and likely will take over the 3C hole in 2020-21. And I think he could become our 2C as early as next season. You think that's unreasonable? Great! What's the issue here? You obviously know, or at least you should, when I make these "guarantees", they're made tongue in cheek. I don't know about you, but I prefer positive vibes regarding the Red Wings, rather than the same old negative bulls*** a lot of users spew here on a daily basis...

So now you're comparing Mantha and Athanasiou to Marner and Tkachuk? Marner and Tkachuk just put up 94 and 77 points respectively as 21 year olds... Nylander was coming off back-to-back 61 point seasons as a 22 year old when he signed his contract, and most of the hockey world thought he was overpaid at the time. Mantha and Athanasiou just had career years, putting up 48 and 54 points respectively as 24 year olds... Again, BIG difference... Connor might get in the neighborhood of what Hayes just received, but I wouldn't bet on it. And even if he does, again, it's apples and oranges if you're trying to compare what Connor will get to what Mantha and Athanasiou will get. You really think Mantha and Athanasiou are going to put up 75-85 points this season? I mean, if that's your bar for the two of them, then sure, they probably will get paid more than $6M. However, that's highly unlikely... IF they both put up HUGE numbers and surpass everyone's expectations, I'll agree that they'll get paid above the $6M that I suggested. I still say they get under $6M...

Again, not saying it's likely that Nashville or Carolina trade Fabbro or Bean, but I highly doubt either are untouchable with the amount of depth they both have on the back end. You think Edmonton are in win-now mode? I'm sure Holland would like to get them back into the playoffs, but I'm also sure Nashville would like to go on another deep run, and Carolina would like to build off of what they did last season. Which is why I think they might be willing to trade a high-end defensive prospect before a high-end defenseman off their roster, especially Nashville. I also think Athanasiou would be a great fit in Edmonton on McDavid's wing, but you're not getting the 8th overall pick for AA.

Why would he? Because he's an RFA and has limited negotiating rights... No, they won't sign for less than what their value is. Their value is right around what I'm suggesting... MacKinnon and Scheifele are not getting "shafted". They signed great, team friendly deals (market value at the time) as RFA's three years ago. Sakic and Cheveldayoff did a great job. Yzerman will do the same with Mantha and co. You keep bringing up how they don't care about what Larkin is making. Neither do I. I'm not suggesting they will sign south of $6M just because Larkin is making $6.1M. I just don't see them getting much more than that as RFA's. Connor had back to back 30+ goal seasons as a 20-22 year old. BIG difference. And I still doubt he'll get anything close to what he's "asking", or what you're expecting... Look around? Okay, let's do that... Teuvo Teravainen has put up 35, 42, 64, and 76 points the past 4 seasons. He's 24 years old and just signed a 5 year, $5.4M AAV contract as an RFA. Jake Guentzel has put up 33, 48, and 76 points in the past 3 seasons. He's 24 years old and just signed a 5 year, $6M AAV contract as an RFA. You're expecting Mantha to put up 30-35 goals, 60-65 points? Well that will put him slightly below the two mentioned above. I'll bet the bank that none of Mantha, Athanasiou or Bertuzzi sign above $6M next offseason.

So you don't think it's likely to get a top defensive prospect from a team that is stacked on the back end, for a highly skilled forward to a team that lacks offense? But you think a team that has been a tire fire for over a decade would be willing to give up a top 10 pick for that same player? Keep in mind, this is a GM that we all know very well, and keeps stressing how vital it is to build through the draft.

You don't see what happening at all? Mantha getting under $6M? I'll take that bet. What about MacKinnon and Scheifele? You can't be comparing Mantha and Athanasiou to those two elite players... None of our pending RFA's will get close to what similar UFA's are getting (overpaid or not). RFA ≠ UFA. Why is it so difficult for people to understand this?

If you're going to "quote" me, maybe you should actually quote me... By the way... "We will win the draft lottery in 2020". "Trouba will sign with the Wings next summer". I don't think I've ever said that Veleno will be our 2C next year, but... "Veleno will be our 2C in the not too distant future".

Chuck Fletcher massively overpaying Kevin Hayes won't make Yzerman follow suit. There's one significant difference as well that most people often overlook. Hayes was a UFA. Mantha, Athanasiou and Bertuzzi are all RFA's. I wouldn't be surprised if all three put up somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 goals, 30 assists, give or take, and none will get close to $8M or even $7M. I can see all three being re-signed for less than what Larkin re-signed for last summer. Mantha being the closest at around $5.75M, Athanasiou slightly less at around $5.25M and Bertuzzi at around $4.5M.

Same thing I was talking about last week... If we're trading high end assets like Athanasiou, it needs to be for a known (top prospect), not an unknown (draft pick). As much as I'd like to trade a forward (preferably AA) for a defenseman, I'd feel a lot more comfortable doing so for a Fabbro or Bean, than roll the dice on any of Broberg, Soderstrom, Seider, York or Harley...