krsmith17

That destination? Detroit...

Nah...

By Nylander, I assume you're referring to William? While that does seem like a reasonable trade, it doesn't solve the "Trouba want to play in the States" conundrum... Yes, just a vacation spot. I'm not sure if you heard, but Trouba wants to be a Red Wing...

Just came across the same thing on Twitter... I wonder if his dad is still living in Michigan?...

No.

1. If you think Cholowski NEEDS more time in Grand Rapids, then whatever. I disagree. 2. I've already said that I'd attempt to trade him first. If we could get a late pick for him at the deadline, I'm sure we could get something similar this summer. Picks in the 5th round or later, have about a 10% chance of turning into an NHL player and much lower than that for a top six forward / top four defenseman. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over not getting that late pick... 3. According to you, having a Stanley Cup ring makes him a hot commodity, so how is it needlessly adding a player? 4. You're right. Not comparable at all. Lecavalier was still a 60-70 point top six center. Hardly an "albatross that HAD to be rid of". Daley is a 15-20 point bottom pairing defenseman (to be generous)... Not ruthless? Lecavalier was also a captain and face of that franchise for over a decade. Daley is a journeyman that has been with the team for two seasons... If anything, the fact that Yzerman pulled the trigger on a Lecavalier buy-out proves that he wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on a Daley buy-out. It's not about the cap penalty, because like I posted previously, the hit would be minimal for the next two seasons. It's about the quality (or lack thereof) of the on-ice product. Daley was terrible last season, and unless he spends all summer bathing in the fountain of youth, I doubt things improve for him... Trade his ass back to Dallas for a late round pick (retain 50%).

Sorry, misread your last post. Kind of confused what your point is though... Are you relating this back to Daley at all? Do you think Yzerman would / will only trade Daley if he requests a trade? Or are you only speaking on the St. Louis trade?

Yeah, pretty much. He's likely staying in Russia for two seasons, which isn't a big deal to a rebuilding team. I think Podkolzin falls out of the top 5. It's possible that we take him at 6, but I personally hope not...

I disagree. If anything, it's more impressive that Yzerman was able to get such a great return from the Rangers, knowing he had a NTC and was only willing to waive to go to New York.

No. I was referring to people saying that any good move Holland makes, "fell into his lap"... (eg. Tatar trade) I don't really buy it. Holland made that trade happen, no matter the circumstances. Same goes for Yzerman and the St. Louis trade.

This sounds oddly familiar...

First off, moving Witkowski would have not opened a spot for Cholowski. You don't move your 7th defenseman to make room for a developing kid to become your 7th defenseman... Witkowski is the perfect guy to sit 75% of the games, not a developing defenseman. Second, Jensen over Daley was not at all hindsight. I think most Red Wings fans seen the decline in Daley's game before the beginning of last season, which is the case for most average 35+ year old players. 1. Cholowski being sent down to GR, wouldn't be the worst thing for his development, but if he does, I would hope it's because we've acquired another top four defenseman, or a player like Kaski legitimately beats him out of a spot, not because we don't want to hurt Daley's feelings... 2. I personally don't care about 5th, 6th, 7th round draft picks. At least not enough to keep a player like Daley in the lineup for half a season over Cholowski. 3. I also don't care about him having his name on the Cup... Colin Fraser also has his name on the Cup multiple times. Maybe we should acquire him... 4. Yzerman has shown in his time with Tampa that he doesn't give a s*** about "looking like a good guy"... He bought out Vincent Lecavalier and traded Martin St. Louis. Both of which were much better players and bigger pieces to their team at the time. Maybe he doesn't feel the need to buy-out a player right away, but it would not surprise me at all to see one of Daley or Ericsson moved (traded / waived / bought out) before the start of the season. Yeah, agree to disagree I guess... No he wasn't. They wanted to give a pending UFA a closer look, and even more than that, it was probably a favor to Chris to give his son a taste of the NHL before letting him walk this offseason.

Jensen was one of our better all around defensemen last season, and ended up netting us a 2nd round pick and Bowey at the deadline. You would have waived him over a 35 year old Daley, that was AGAIN, one of the worst defensemen in the entire NHL last season? I can't understand why you're so adamant about keeping Trevor Daley... He's been terrible the past year - year and a half. Cholowski will not be fighting for the 7th D spot. He will be playing top 6 in Detroit, or Grand Rapids. What's the point in a PTO for Witkowski? We already know what we have in him. Just sign him to be the 7th defenseman / 13th forward.

Because like I said, Cholowski hit a brick wall, and was sent down for good reason. That doesn't mean he shouldn't get every opportunity to make the team out of camp this year. What does last year have to do with this year? Completely different situation with a new GM. Also, a lot of decisions Holland made were "illogical" or at the very least questionable, when it came to player management over the years. Like I said, I'm not against Cholowski starting in Grand Rapids, if he isn't one of the six best defensemen in training camp / pre-season. I am against a scrub like Daley taking his spot if he proves he is ready though. What are we going to get for Daley at the trade deadline? A 5th round pick? I'll take the hit on that one... Bold - I agree. Underlined - Name one depth player that could / should be sent down before Daley, who is a year older, coming off a season where he was one of the worst defensemen in the entire league... The only argument I'd hear is Ericsson, but I'm assuming you'd have the same vet > kid philosophy with him... Green is better. Dekeyser is better. Bowey is better. Hronek is better. Cholowski is better.

Never even heard of the site to be honest. I just assumed that it was at least partially true (the Yzerman inquiring part). Obviously knew the ask was way too low... Well that kinda blows... Oh well... Trouba will be a Red Wing regardless...

I assumed the report that Yzerman has inquired on Trouba was actual news... So the whole thing is bogus as far as we know?

I don't really have much interest in signing any UFA's, unless they're one-year stop-gaps. I guess if we were to sign one, I'd be okay with a Riley Barber type signing on a two-way contract for depth. Zero. If we're going to offer sheet a player (I don't think we will), Kapanen would be the only player that I'd have any interest in.

I'll admit that I was flip flopping a little there... My bad... Here's how I feel about the situation... I think Trouba could be had for less than what you think it would cost. However, if Yzerman feels he could acquire Trouba for free next offseason, I think he will do that, rather than giving up assets now. He has already inquired about him, and I'm sure he has a better idea where Trouba's head is at than any of us... I'm not able to link anything right now, but I know for a fact that his Corsi, Fenwick SAT% and GAR were amongst the worst in the league. Not to mention his whopping 8 points... Cholowski had 8 points in his first 11 NHL games. Of course he was never going to keep up that pace, but if he hadn't hit that wall around the 30-40 game mark, he could have legitimately been a 30+ point defenseman in his rookie season at the age of 20/21.

I'm not opposed to Cholowski starting in Grand Rapids. I don't think it would be the worst thing for his development, but assuming he has a similar camp as last season and once again looks like he belongs, I'd play him over Daley. Just hope that he's better conditioned for the grind of an 82 game NHL season. I think he will be. Of course it all depends on what happens this offseason, and how players perform in training camp / preseason, but I'd think Cholowski would be ahead of Kaski at this point.

So much wrong with this post... Trevor Daley is NOT better than Dennis Cholowski. Not even close. He wasn't last season, and he certainly won't be next season. Daley had some of the worst underlying numbers in the entire NHL last season. Like, legitimately bottom 5-10 in the league. Cholowski was MUCH better than Daley to start the season, but he eventually hit a brick wall, which most rookies do. He started to struggle and was eventually sent down to Grand Rapids, for good reason. After the season he just had, and an offseason we expect him to have, he should be capable of taking another step in his development. At 36 years old, Daley will most certainly take a step back (if that's even possible after the horrid season he just had). All of that aside though, a rebuilding team should almost always play the young, skilled kid (assuming he's ready), over the old, s***ty vet. Cholowski >>> Daley

With Holland, I think this would be the case. With Yzerman, I think we'll see some of these situations handled differently.

Not really. My original post was a question of what people thought it would cost if we were to trade for Trouba. My suggestion was a top 4 defenseman that could replace most of the offense they'd be losing for the one season they would have had Trouba, a 9th overall draft pick from two years ago, and a 2nd round pick. Some thought that was too much to give up. Others thought it wasn't enough. I thought it was fair value for the position the Jets are in. I'm on the fence whether I think we should pony up the pieces to trade for him now, or wait a year to go after him when he hopefully hits free agency. The only way I would be able to make that decision one way or the other, is to have a better idea where Trouba is at in regards to his future. I assume Yzerman has this. I think the biggest argument has been what it would cost to acquire Trouba. I know we're not giving up Hronek, and I highly doubt we'd give up Veleno, which is why I said your trade proposal was "foolish". I don't think it would cost as much as you and a few others think it would because of the position the Jets are in. The more I think about it, the more I think I'd rather wait it out and see if we can acquire him in a year's time...

I don't disagree. Just saying that cap space doesn't matter for the next couple years, so a buy-out is an option. Sure, they could waive him, but they might elect to buy him out to give him a chance at another contract, rather than rotting in the minors...

I'm not worried about the 50 contract limit. As far as I know, we still have plenty of room there. I'm more concerned with the 23-man roster limit, or more specifically, the 7-man defensive corp. I want more kids given more of an opportunity. I want Cholowski on the team over Daley. I don't care how that's achieved, but make it happen. Throw his name out there as a trade option. Offer to eat half his salary. If there are no takers, waive him or buy him out. I don't care. Daley was a bad signing two years ago, and as expected, is terrible now. Get rid of him.

I agree, but this is exactly why I'd love to see them switch him 'back' to forward. He's a recently converted defenseman and I think he would be better suited as a winger. Play him on the wing in Grand Rapids and if he excels, great. If not, oh well. I think that would be his best chance of becoming an NHL player. I just don't see him hacking it as an NHL defenseman...