krsmith17

Yeah, I have Turcotte going to Chicago. Definitely could make an argument for him being the top center available at 3, local kid, similar play style to Toews, who's now 31 years old. Bowman has also said that he'd like to draft a center. A lot can change though and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they take Byram... or Cozens, or Dach, or Podkolzin, or...

I'm not sure if we will be by next season, but definitely by 2020-21.

I can see anyone outside of Hughes, Kakko (obviously) and Byram being available at 6. I'd be more shocked to see Byram sitting there at 6, than I would be to see any of Cozens, Turcotte, Zegras, Dach, Podkolzin, etc. sitting there at 12.

I'd be shocked / thrilled if Byram drops to 6. I just don't see it happening.

This would be worst case scenario for me. I want one of Byram, Cozens or Turcotte, in that order... I wouldn't hate this though... I also wouldn't mind a trade back if that's how the top 5 plays out...

We're 2 Sharks wins away from that 2020 3rd round pick turning into a 2nd round pick. That could be a significant piece to this rebuild. I'm not sure why any Red Wings fan would be cheering for the Blues... GO SHARKS!!!

I thought his ceiling after being drafted was probably a 2nd line winger. At this point, I'd say his ceiling is a 3rd line winger. It all just depends on how that injury affects him. I would trade him in a package, but I agree with kip, that there likely wouldn't be much, if any interest in him at this point. We're better off playing him this season and see what we have in him. I'm still hopeful he can be a player.

Exactly this. I didn't start "attacking" mackel because of his dumb opinions, I started "attacking" mackel because of the way he went about expressing those opinions and how often he did it. Every. single. time Zadina was brought up, he would come spewing the same bulls*** about how "Zadina is a bust". Even when Podkolzin was brought up, he had to bring up how "Zadina is a bust". I then seen CRL saying the same s***, not realizing that he was being sarcastic (should have known better)... But yeah, "Zadina is a bust because I watched him a few games in juniors and he dropped a few spots in the draft for a reason"... is the dumbest "reason" to call a players a "bust"... CRL, I pretty much agree with your assessment. I just don't share the same concern about him being a triggerman, or being the finisher to a setup guy... Every setup guy needs a finisher and every finisher needs a setup guy. I don't see the issue with Zadina being one half of that equation. Like you mentioned, he has all the tools; shooting, passing, stick-handling, etc. His skating obviously isn't elite, but it won't hold him back (like Hudler). I agree that Larkin should be a good measuring stick in a couple years, but I don't understand comparing Zadina to Larkin in play style. They're two completely different players. Ideally, Larkin will be a 25-35 goal, 50-60 assist center, and Zadina will be a 30-40 goal, 30-40 assist winger. Zadina probably won't ever drive offense like Larkin, but he'll be a key cog in the offensive production.

YACSPOFS

Don't worry man, I wasn't talking about you...

I'm certain you've called him a bust at some point, but I don't have the time or patience to go back through your post history to look for it. Anyway, I guess we agree, so whatever. Apparently there's just one moron that thinks Zadina is a bust then. My apologies. Anyway, back on topic... sorta... Does anyone here have a subscription to NextGenHockey? I've heard they have some great draft prospect profiles. Just wondering if it's worth the subscription...

No strawmaning. I was asking you over and over again if you think Zadina is a bust. Instead of answering the question you beat around the bush and we had a pointless discussion for several pages...

No.

Okay, so you don't think Zadina is destined to be a bust? Good talk...

No strawman here. You're the one that said he was a bust... CRL: "Zadina is a bust". *pages of debating whether or not Zadina is a bust* CRL: "You know I don't actually think he's busted"... ... Okay.

Express concern. Say he hasn't met expectations. Say he had a bad season. Say he's behind where Larkin was at the same age. All of that is fine and no one is disagreeing... What myself and others are disagreeing with you (and mackel) on, is calling him a bust as a teenager after ONE f***ing season in the pros... It is "dumb" and "f***ing stupid"... You then go on to say that you're "expecting a much bigger second season out of him"... Why would you be "expecting" anything out of him, if you already consider him a "bust"? Fair enough. I'm not too far off those numbers, although I'd say his floor is a little higher. I also think he's much more likely to come closer to his ceiling than floor.

Larkin is a great measuring stick for what we want our star players to *eventually* become. Zadina not being at that level yet means absolutely nothing in regards to where he projects to be in 2-3 years from now. AGAIN, Zadina having a disappointing season as a first year pro, younger than all his peers, is NOT equal to Zadina is / will be a bust. Zadina had a disappointing season. So f***ing what? So is that his floor or ceiling? If you're saying it's his floor, I agree. If you're saying it's his ceiling, I think you're way off on your projection.

He's certainly no Gerry James...

No I don't actually... What would you say Zadina's floor and ceiling are in regards to point totals? And what would you say the likelihood is that he only reaches his floor or reaches his ceiling?

What is your point??? Not a single person is arguing this... Zadina is behind where Larkin was at the same age does not equal Zadina is / will be a bust...

Age matters. Draft year matters. Context matters for both. Neither are the end all, be all. "Only 30th in rookie scoring". Congratulations to all the 20-23 year olds that managed to outscore a teenager... You keep comparing Zadina to Larkin as if I'm saying that Zadina is as good or better than Larkin or something... Larkin likely would have outscored Zadina if he had played in the AHL 4 years ago. What's your point? Does any of this mean that Zadina won't be as good as Larkin? Does it mean that Zadina will be a bust? The only reason any of this is being discussed right now is because you and mackel started calling Zadina a bust. And I'm not sure which is worse... mackel calling him a bust because he watched him a few times in his draft year in Halifax, or you calling him a bust because he's not as good as Larkin was at the same age...

Colorado might be willing to trade back a couple spots, but I don't think they'd have much interest in Mike Green. And it definitely doesn't make much sense from their perspective to give up the 4th AND a 2nd or 3rd round pick for the 6th and one season of a player that may or may not be healthy to start the season. If anything we would be the team giving up the additional pick(s) in that scenario. Maybe this gets it done... To DET: 2019 1st round pick (OTT) - 4th overall To COL: 2019 1st round pick (DET) 6th overall, 2019 2nd round pick (NYI), 2020 3rd round pick (DET) ... but I'm not sure if I'd do make that trade. I say take the best player available at 6 (hopefully Byram miraculously falls to us) or trade back a couple spots if there are multiple players we really like still on the board.

It's completely reasonable to have higher expectations for a high draft pick. However, in my opinion, it's unreasonable to assume that just because he was a high draft pick that he was going to dominate a pro league in his first season as a teenager. He was one of the youngest players in the entire league. He finished 30th in rookie scoring, however the majority of the players ahead of him were one, two, three, plus years older than him. The only other '99 birthday in the top 30, was Martin Necas, and he's 10 months older and a year ahead in terms of when he was drafted. Taking all that into account, you should understand how dumb it is to assume he will be a bust... Again, Larkin cracked the lineup in his draft +1 season, and like it or not, that does make a huge difference. There's also a huge difference in where the team was at 4 years ago when Larkin made it, compared to this past season when Zadina was trying to make it. 4 years ago the Red Wings were trying to keep the streak alive, and they felt that Larkin could help them do that. This past year, it was finally obvious that we were rebuilding, so there was no need to rush prospects. He will. Book it.

He "only earned 9 games in the NHL" because management wanted to slide his ELC. Sliding Zadina's ELC had absolutely nothing to do with waiver eligibility. They wanted to keep him under 10 games to get an extra year on the cheap, not because they think he'll still be in Grand Rapids in three years... You're not going to buy the his linemates let him down excuse, but you don't even know who his linemates were... His linemates Terry and Puempel? He never played any significant time with either of those players... He did play with Megan a fair bit, and they seemed to click a bit, but on the other wing was almost always a scrub line Ford, Campbell or Shine... I disagree that Zadina's first season was a disappointment. I would have liked to see more out of him production wise, but I seen a lot of good things. I think he'll have a big 2019-20 season.

Larkin was a steal in his draft. If there were a 2014 re-draft, he would be a top 5, possibly top 3 pick. In saying that, I agree that Larkin should be used as somewhat of a measuring stick for our future stars. However, just because Zadina isn't where Larkin was at the same age, doesn't mean s*** to me. Zadina could still be as good or better in 2-3 years time. I'm not saying he will be, or even that I think he will be, just that he could be. Larkin and Zadina have taken completely different paths to get to the NHL, so why should we expect the same results right out of the gate? And who's to say, Zadina wouldn't have had similar numbers if he played a full season in the NHL? I watched quite a few Griffins games this past season, and I know for a fact that Zadina was often a victim of circumstance. I lost count of the number of times he made plays that his lines mates couldn't finish, or he was in the right place, and his linemates couldn't get him the puck. Maybe if he played a full season with Larkin (Zetterberg) in the NHL, he would have put up better numbers. Who knows? Either way, to call Zadina a bust after one season is beyond f***ing stupid in my opinion...