krsmith17

Cholowski > McIsaac > Bowey > Hicketts

Signing Karlsson and Panarin would give us two superstars. No debate there. My argument is that signing two of these guys narrows our Cup window because those contracts are not going to age well at all. Even with two of them, I don't think this team is a Cup contender. A playoff team, sure, but still not ready to truly compete for a Cup. We need to be thinking long term, and in my opinion, Karlsson and Panarin are not long term solutions. You know who are long term solutions? Our current core with the addition of another top pick in 2020...

No, I'm implying that Minnesota, much like the current Red Wings, were not Cup contenders before or after those two huge signings, and in my opinion will hurt them long term. You're really going to compare a team that already had Yzerman, Shanahan, Fedorov, Larionov, Holmstrom, Lidstrom, Chelios and a rookie Datsyuk adding Hull, Robitaille and Hasek, to this current team adding Panarin and Karlsson??? Not even close to the same. If anything you're proving my point. I've already said, if we were in our Cup window (like that 2002 team), I'd be all for adding one or both, but we aren't so I'm not. There are high-end free agents every. single. year. It's not this year (Panarin / Karlsson) or bust. Sure, Karlsson and Panarin could get us in the playoffs, but it's not a guarantee as you're suggesting. Besides, I don't think playoffs next season is what's best for this team. I'd much rather have a chance at another top pick (Lafreniere, Byfield, Raymond, Holtz, etc), and go for it in 2020, rather than squeeze into the playoffs on the backs of two veteran free agents. These guys are going to be past their prime, making way too much money for too long when this team is truly ready to compete.

Even if you consider 28 to be "in their prime" (I'd say you're wrong), they're not going to be 28 for the duration of their contracts. I'm not here thinking that they'll sign and instantly decline. Even with the injury concerns, I think they'll have a few good years before the decline starts. The issue is, we're at least a few years away from contending, even with Karlsson and / or Panarin. I get it, you want Karlsson and Panarin. I don't. From everything I've seen, heard and read, I'd be shocked if we sign either.

Trouba.img He was wearing a Red Wings hat, but management told him he couldn't wear it. He decided to wear the Tigers hat instead. They didn't say anything about changing his boxers though... RedWingsBoxers.img

Pretty much what Dabura has already said, but I think you're cherry picking names a little there. One of the best defensemen of all time and one of the most durable defensemen of all time... Suter is actually a pretty good comparable. Minnesota signed him to that massive contract, and while it's been good so far, how do you think it's going to look over the next 6 seasons? And what have the Wild done since signing Suter and Parise in 2012 free agency? Absolutely nothing. Also, as far as I know, none of those players have had any of the injury concerns that Karlsson has had. So no, Karlsson isn't the exception to the rule because he's 28. He's the exception to the rule (in my opinion) because of all the injury issues he's had over the past few seasons. If we were in our Cup window, I'd be all for signing Karlsson, even if I thought it might not be smart long-term. We're not in our Cup window. Not even close.

When the whole thing about him "requesting a trade" was a thing a year or two ago, there were rumors swirling that he wanted to play for his hometown Red Wings. I don't know for sure that we would be number one on his trade list (although I think we probably would be), but I'd bet we'd be in the top 2 or 3 for sure. Who knows though. Regardless, I say wait it out, hope he becomes a free agent, and hope he wants to "come home"...

Very... I watched 4 of the 5 games, and the Griffs did not look good...

If you're talking a sign and trade, I doubt Trouba agrees to that, unless he has a say in where he's going. If he has say in where he's going, you'd have to think the Wings would be at the top of that list. If we're at the top of the list, no way they're getting Cholowski... If you're talking a trade as a restricted free agent (unrestricted next season), I still say no. Whatever team he gets traded to (Philadelphia?) will have the same issues re-signing him as Winnipeg. So again, keep Cholowski. Sign Trouba as a free agent next summer...

You disagree with B? You wouldn't want to sign a veteran (like a Pominville or Williams) to a one-year contract with the intent to flip them at the deadline for assets? Why not? We're a rebuilding team. Those are the exact moves a team in our situation should be trying to take advantage of. What do you mean Karlsson could return a huge haul? At 28 years old, most players are starting the downswing (back nine) of their career. Karlsson, being an elite player, should have another few really good years in him, assuming injuries don't derail him too much, but beyond that, I don't think he'll be worth close to what he'll end up getting paid. That's just my opinion.

You now have approximately $17M in cap space going into the 2020-21 season, and need to fill 5 forwards (including restricted free agents Mantha, Athanasiou and Bertuzzi), 3 defensemen and a goaltender. I want nothing to do with signing 2 players beyond their prime years to $22M...

Nah. Keep Cholowski. Sign Trouba as free agent next summer.

I hate their post-game routines, the same way I hate Vegas' pre-game routines. But I like both teams for the reasons you mentioned. Exciting young teams.

I'd be slightly more okay with a Panarin signing, depending on the cost... $10+M for 7 years, I'd pass. Not because I don't think he's worth that contract, but because I don't think he'd be worth it to this team. We're not a Panarin away from being a Cup contender. Again, stay the course. No quick fixes.

I'm confused. In another thread you're advocating trading for Karlsson, but in this one, you're saying we should only focus on signing young players with high ceilings or veteran players on the cheap. Karlsson is neither of those things. For the record, I agree with your philosophy in this thread, for the most part... However, I don't think we're a complete dumpster fire as you put it. I think we're a rebuilding team, with a lot of very promising young players on the team / in the system, with more on the way in the next two drafts. You replied to my previous message, but you clearly didn't read it, or understand it. These NTC/NMC really don't effect a team that much. Certainly not enough to blame that on the team's demise. This team is bad now, because it's the natural cycle of sports. Every team inevitably has to be bad before they can be good again. We miraculously avoided one rebuild because we got extremely lucky in the draft. The chance of that happening again was slim to none. I was impartial on the Nielsen signing. Didn't like it at the time, but didn't hate it either. I hated the Daley and Vanek signings. Green was a good signing. But yeah, for the most part, I agree that we should stay away from these types of signings, which is why I've been saying that we should stay far away from free agency this offseason.

Last season's cap situation has nothing to do with signing a player for next season, so yeah, I obviously mean heading into next season... Why would I be opposed to going after Karlsson?... We're currently a bad team in the midst of a rebuild. We should not be looking for any quick fixes. Adding Karlsson might make us a playoff contender, but certainly not a Stanley Cup contender. That, in my opinion, would be very short sighted. Stick with the process and continue to build through the draft. If we really want to add players through free agency or trade, they should be young players that can grow with our young core. Karlsson is 28 years old (29 next season). He'll be beyond his prime years when this team is realistically ready to compete. He's also had some injuries over the past few seasons that would be cause for concern. He's going to command HUGE money, long term. We may have plenty of cap space going into next season, but with Mantha, Athanasiou and Bertuzzi all needing new contracts (significant raises) in 2020, it would not be wise to invest $10+M into an aging Karlsson. I'd much rather be bad for another season, continue to stock the cupboard, and see if we can sign Trouba in 2020. He's obviously not the same caliber player (offensively) as Karlsson, but he's three years younger, and would cost about half of what Karlsson would cost. Any acquisitions we make in the next year or so should have the future in mind. There are three types of players I'd be open to acquiring this offseason. A) (like previously mentioned) a young player that can grow with our young core. B) a veteran player (not Vanek), signed for one year, that can be flipped at the deadline for a pick / prospect. C) a salary dump from another team with one year remaining, that can get us a pick / prospect.

Considering the chance of him being picked 6th is 0, I'd make that bet.

If you want Broberg that bad (I'm not sure why...), you move up from 35 to take him around 15-20, not 6th overall. That would be a major reach, and in my opinion a bad pick with so many better players on the board.

I had those two and Colorado...

There hasn't been a draft in the past 15 years where a defenseman hasn't been picked in the top 5. That's not going to change this year either. Byram will be gone before pick 6.

Yeah, I think Abdelkader is a 4th liner at best at this stage of his career, and I guess that's why we disagree on how much he's overpaid by. But we both agree on what Dekeyser is, but what top 4 defenseman is making under $4M in the prime of their career? Anyway, I do agree that their situations are similar. They're both overpaid and overplayed, but I just think Abby's contract has more of a negative impact on the salary cap.

I agree that we need to give Yzerman some time. He's not going to turn this team around over night. However, I disagree that it's such a mess as you say... I discussed this a bit in another thread, but here goes again... NTC/NMC don't really effect team's as much as some people believe they do. It rarely prevents players from being traded, it just gives the player a say in where they get traded. We do not have 9 NTC/NMC. We currently have 7. Kronwall's and Vanek's are done. They are UFA's this offseason, and neither are likely to be re-signed. Even if Kronwall gets another one year contract (I hope he doesn't), and even if he's given a NTC (I don't think he would), it wouldn't effect us at all long-term. Another 2 come off the books after next season, in Ericsson and Daley. You can also remove Abdelkader and Helm from that list, because both of their NTC's become void after next season if the Red Wings don't make the playoffs (we won't), and / or if they are not in the top 9 forwards in ice time (they won't be). So now, all of a sudden, we only have 3 NTC/NMC going into the 2020 season. What a coincidence, that's the season we should be starting to turn the corner to be competitive... Green's NTC becomes a M-NTC leading up the trade deadline in his final season (February 2020), in which he would have to submit a 10 team no-trade list. Easily tradable... DeKeyser's NTC becomes a M-NTC leading up the trade deadline in his second to final season (January 2021), in which he would have to submit a 10 team no-trade list. Easily tradable... Nielsen has a M-NTC now until the end of his contract (2022) in which he would have to submit a 10 team no-trade list. Easily tradeable. Long story short, we're not in nearly as bad shape as some people think we are. I actually think we're in pretty good shape going forward.

Last year a lot of people were suggesting we should trade up to 3 to grab Zadina. I said it was a terrible idea because it would cost a ton, and it was a deep draft, so just take best player available at 6. I have the same mindset this year. The difference is, last year I said it's possible Zadina slips to us at 6. This year, I don't think there's any way Byram slips to us at 6. We will still be getting a really good player in Cozens, Turcotte, Zegras or Podkolzin, but unfortunately I'd say there's close to zero percent chance we get Byram...

Right about what? I didn't predict anything haha, just saying who I want to win. If I'm predicting who wins, it's Boston. But I guess that bodes well for us, since I went 3-5 in the first round...

We're not over the cap though. We'll have approximately $15M in cap space this summer, which is more than enough to sign Karlsson. I just think it would be a terrible decision, for all the reasons that have already been stated. We also don't have many bad contracts that will "f*** us" much longer. Nielsen and Abdelkader are the two worst in my opinion, and both can be moved / bought out over the next few seasons. Also, we wouldn't be trading for Karlsson. He's a free agent, so we wouldn't have to give up any assets, just cap space. I still say it's a terrible idea for a team in our position. I hope Yzerman stays far away from Karlsson, and I think he will...