krsmith17

Ryan, Helm, and Svechnikov are all either injured or out due to Covid protocol. No, Djoos isn't injured as far as I know. That line of players should have been IR / healthy scratch. Basically the remaining players that make up the 23-man roster. Apparently Svechnikov is on waivers... You can't waive a player that is on IR, so I assume that means he's healthy? Hopefully he clears...

If Ryan is out long-term, I'd consider it. Otherwise, I'd pass. I'd prefer Kylington over Djoos, but neither are likely to be anything more than 3rd pairing defensemen.

I skimmed most of the article, then posted immediately since it was related to a current LGW debate... I missed the Larkin to O'Reilly comparison, but I've been banging that drum for over a year now. It's nice to see that model agree with me. Larkin definitely has that O'Reilly-esqu franchise caliber center potential in him. With help around him, I think he gets there and proves a lot of people wrong.

Craig Custance and Dom Luszczyszyn just released an article today ranking the top 100 NHL players... https://theathletic.com/2311395/2021/01/11/nhl-player-tiers-mcdavid-mackinnon-matthews/ NHL coaches, executives and analysts from around the league helped put these rankings together. "We wanted it to be more than just a player ranking or even the less subjective results of a mathematical model. We wanted analytics to have a say as well as those who collect a paycheck doing this for a living for one of the 32 teams. This was our attempt to meld analytics and the eye test to determine where players rate right now, heading into this season." Broken down into tiers... MVP 1A - McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews 1B - Crosby, Draisaitl Franchise 2A - Eichel, Pettersson, Point 2B - Malkin, Barkov, O'Reilly, Couturier, Bergeron All-Star 3A - Tavares, Barzal, Aho 3B - Scheifele, Zibanejad Top Line 4A - Dubois, Larkin 4B - Seguin, Horvat, Cirelli, Hertl, Karlsson 4C - Toews, Kopitar, Backstrom, Hischier So based on this, Larkin is a top 20 center in the league, on a league worst team, with still room to grow. Look at where O'Reilly was in his career at the age of 24 (not as good as Larkin), and where he is now (a franchise caliber center)...

That's my point though, and the same applies to Larkin. Zadina projects to be a top line caliber winger (regardless where he ends up in the lineup), and Larkin has been and will continue to be a top line caliber center. If we acquire a center better than Larkin, bumping him down to the 2nd line, that would be great, but it doesn't change the fact that Larkin IS a top line caliber center. Regardless, the only way I see Larkin getting bumped off that top line is if we draft Shane Wright in 2022, and even then, it would likely be 2024 (at the earliest) before he would be ready to take over the top line (and that's if he actually is McDavid tier)... Larkin will be the top line center on this team for the foreseeable future. He may never be elite, but surround him with elite wingers, and add depth behind him, and this team will be fine.

Brome will likely make the 23-man roster. I think all of Rasmussen, Smith and Cholowski have played well enough in training camp / scrimmages to earn a spot. Unfortunately for them, being three of only a handful that are waiver exempt, all three will likely end up on the taxi squad until the AHL season starts up, and then be assigned to GR to get some game action... What I think we'll see... Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha Namestnikov - Fabbri - Zadina Brome - Filppula - Gagner Smith - Glendening - Erne Nemeth- Hronek DeKeyser - Merrill Staal - Stecher Bernier / Greiss IR: Ryan, Helm, Svechnikov (one of the three put on LTIR?), Djoos Taxi Squad: Nielsen, Hirose, Biega, Lindstrom, Boyle Grand Rapids: Rasmussen, Pearson, Smith (as soon as one of the three is taken off IR), Cholowski, Pickard

Zadina may end up playing on the 2nd line, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's not a 1st line caliber winger. Teams rarely have their top two wingers (especially if they're both better suited on the same side) on the top line. Zadina will be in competition with Mantha, for that top RW spot. If both are top line caliber wingers, one will have to play on the 2nd line. It depends on how Blashill wants to spread out the offense. Same applies to the power-play units. I'm not sure if anyone's stock should go up or down in one (or even three) Red/White games, but I agree, Zadina and that whole line looked really good. I'm really likely Fabbri at center so far, and Namestnikov has been impressive in all three scrimmages. Brome has looked good as well.

What "other centers"? Other centers in the NHL? Other top line centers in the NHL? I never even knew you said that about Zadina, but what are you basing that opinion on? He's definitely projecting to be a top six winger, and has the potential to be a top line winger.

People a lot smarter than you or I say that Larkin is a number one center. The stats say that Larkin is a number one center. You and a couple other dummies (the same dummies that think Zadina is a bust) are the only ones that think Larkin isn't a number one center. Don't be a dummy. Average compared to what? Larkin is an elite skater, high hockey IQ, good passer.

This simply isn't true. Stop listening to the dummies. Larkin is a 1C. It's already been explained what makes Larkin a 1C. Explain what makes him "not a 1C".

Not at all a BOLD prediction, but a prediction nonetheless... Larkin will score at (or very close to) a point per game pace, while playing 20+ minutes a night in all situations, against the best centers in the league, and dummies will still say "he's not a true number one center"...

Larkin is a true #1C though. That's the point... Larkin isn't going to be bumped out of that role unless we get an elite player like a McDavid or Matthews 1st overall. Even if we draft a center in the top three in one of the next two drafts, it would likely be a minimum of 5-7 years before he'd bump Larkin off that top line, and that's IF he ever ends up better than Larkin, which is no guarantee... Again, like it or not, Larkin will likely be the number one center on this team for the next several years at least.

Yes, we'll need another 1C of Larkin's ability to have a chance. That, we agree on.

What exactly did I "side step"? No one is hanging their hat on a 31st ranked center. Larkin was a 31st ranked center in a down season on a historically bad team, with very little support. Larkin is much better than the 31st ranked center in the league. He's a middle of the pack 1C right now, with still some room to grow. Ryan O'Reilly is a legitimate 1C. The St. Louis Blues won a Stanley Cup with O'Reilly as their number one center. This team isn't winning s*** as is, but this team can absolutely win a Stanley Cup with Larkin as the number one center. We'll need a 1B to Larkin's 1A, more support around him, better depth down the lineup, improved defense, and capable goaltending. A lot of work needs to be done, and Yzerman knows this. He's more than capable of building this team into a contender, and like it or not, that likely includes Larkin (soon to be captain) as the number one center for the foreseeable future.

How many "contenders" are in the league any given year? 5? 10? So you're saying Larkin isn't a top 10 center in the league? Literally no one is saying he is. He's not as good as McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, etc? No s***! That doesn't mean he's not a legitimate 1C. He absolutely is by just about every metric. He's playing on by far the worst team in the league. As the team improves, so will his numbers. I'll bet on him being close to a point per game again this season, while playing in all situations, and going head to head against the leagues best every night. That's a 1C calibre player on any team in the league.

Yeah, it appears that way. I'd still prefer Cholowski get another look in Detroit, but starting in Grand Rapids won't be the worst thing for his development. Hopefully he can push his way on the big club sooner than later.

Absof***inglutely. I guarantee Veleno's time at center is not done. When he gets back to Michigan, he will be playing center once again. It's hilarious that you think he "can't" play center in the SHL, or that the ONLY reason he started putting up points is because he was switched to wing. I'm sure that's definitely part of it, but maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with adapting to the different size ice, in a different league, in a different country. Or maybe even playing with better players. You really think his point totals would be that drastically different right now if he were centering that same line, and Howden was on the wing? Maybe a point or two in the difference, one way or the other, but overall it would be about the same.

No. There's no "proof" that Veleno will be a better center than a winger. No more than there is proof that he is a better winger than center... However, the fact that he's played center his entire career up to this point, and the tools that make him a good player, are coincidentally the same tools that make a good center, is what indicates to me that he will be an NHL center. Not to mention the fact that the Red Wings will most definitely continue to play him at center when he gets back to North America in a few months.

What evidence exactly? Point totals based on two different 12 game stretches, in a year he is transitioning to, like has been mentioned many times (and is obviously falling on deaf ears), a different league, in a different country, on a different size ice...? It's crazy to me that you admittedly don't watch SHL games, probably haven't seen Veleno play a single game this season, and you're still spewing s*** like you have a clue what your talking about... based solely on point totals... lol You also said Veleno has limited offense in his game. He's proved that wrong over this last stretch. He will eventually prove you wrong again with your "better suited on the wing" theory... Based on what? Larkin has been and will continue to be a very good top line center. Like it or not, unless we get lucky in the 2022 draft and land Wright, Larkin will be our 1C for the foreseeable future.

Veleno could be a 3C (for those that don't know, that means 3rd line CENTER) in the mold of Jordan Staal. But also, Veleno won't play center in the NHL because he can't even play center in the SHL... Abdelkader and Helm played center up until the NHL, transitioned to wing, so that obviously means that Veleno will do the same... Once you have an opinion, never change it, regardless how things pan out.

Something, something Veleno isn't good enough to play center, despite playing his entire career at that position, minus one weird season overseas... Also, I've seen our 3rd line listed as our 2nd line many times over the years. Also, also "2nd lines" sometimes get more minutes than "1st lines", and "3rd lines" sometimes get more minutes than "2nd lines"... I've literally argued that Larkin IS a legit 1C many, many times here. I'm one of the few here that think he is... Try to keep up.

Dylan Larkin, a legit number one NHL center. Joe Veleno, a high end center prospect. Only kipwinger would act like these two things are similar. Imagine thinking Malmo, "the worst team in the 4th best league" know what's better for Veleno's development than Steve Yzerman and the Detroit Red Wings...

Larkin scored 45 points in his first season on the wing, then 32 points in his second season at center. I'm pretty sure 45 is more than 32. By your dumbass logic, Larkin should have went back to the wing after that second season because he very obviously struggled to produce at center... Larkin was always a center and played one season on the wing to ease the transition. Veleno has always been a center and has played, up to this point, 10ish games on the wing. And according to you, this indicates that Veleno isn't cut out to be a center... LOL Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah... Let's repeat everything for another few hours, shall we?... By watching him dumbass... He skates well, and moves the puck well. He makes good decisions on the power-play, can get pucks through lanes, on net and on sticks. Literally all I'm saying is that he's better than 33 year old Marc Staal and 32 year old Alex Biega, and deserves another look on the 3rd pair and 2nd PP unit, and you're, for whatever reason, all up in arms about it... Yeah, because the lineup sheet never lies... I'll take ely's word for it (someone that lives in Europe (Sweden?) and watches the games) over someone that thinks he knows everything by looking at game sheets and stat lines...

Why did Blashill "pick" Larkin to play on the wing if he was so good at center? And why, if he was so good at center, did he score more on the wing? And don't give me s*** about Larkin was younger. It's irrelevant. He still started out as a winger, and evolved into a center, like most young players. Larkin was also a much better prospect, further ahead in his development. 20 years old is still very young in the development of a young hockey player. I don't know why he's playing wing in Malmo, but he played center in Grand Rapids, and he will play center in Detroit. You're the only person that seems to think Veleno is better suited on the wing long term. And it's kind of confusing considering how much you value centers over wingers... My ENTIRE argument for Cholowski might be based on stats if I never watched him play. That's not the case though. I've never missed a game he's played in Detroit, and I've seen a good many he's played in Grand Rapids. Very little of my argument for Cholowski has to do with stats. It's based on his play and even more than that, current circumstances with him and the team.

Absolutely. Try watching him play rather than stat watching. What are the attributes that make up a good center? Skating, hockey IQ, faceoffs, defensive awareness. Veleno is an elite skater, has high hockey IQ, and is good on faceoffs. He's not so great defensively *yet*, but that can be worked on, and will certainly have to be for him to play center at the highest level. The tools are there. He'll get there. Handemark is usually listed as the 1C, but the top two lines (Handemark / Westerholm) get around the same ice time. I was going to say that Handemark was the 1C and Westerholm was the 2C in my last post, but I thought you would push back based on point totals. I know how much you love point totals... Anyway, point being, if that's the case Veleno was promoted from 3C to 1W on Handemark's wing. Once Handemark got injured, Malmo picked up Howden, and Veleno has since been playing on his wing. Veleno has been playing on the top line, and been one of the top players for the past few weeks, on a team starved for offense. It's clearly working, so why would the coach change anything? This won't change anything for Yzerman and the Red Wings organization though. I'm sure they still sees Veleno as a center, and they will continue to develop him as such.