krsmith17

Sure, players always "want more", but they won't always "get more"... Subban is the highest paid defenseman at $9M. Doughty is the 10th highest paid defenseman at $7M. Taking a "discount" of $6-6.5M would still put him in the top 20 highest paid defensemen in the league. I can't see him asking or getting any more than that. You mentioned Doughty and Karlsson who make $7M and $6.5M respectively. Do you really think he'll ask for more than either of them? I don't. And no, I personally don't have much interest in Karlsson. He'll soon be 29 years old, and into his 30's by the time this team is ready to compete. Also consider that he will command top dollar, likely as much or more than Subban is making, no thanks...

LOL It's hilarious how combative you are... The Sporting News and Dobber Prospects are TWO rankings, not ONE. ESPN also ranked Tampa 7th. Top Shelf Prospects ranked them 14th. Not "top 3rd", but close. Maybe "plenty" was a poor word choice there, but considering how few sites there are that do annual prospect pool rankings, it's not that far off... You found ONE that has them ranked 30th, and conclude that they're "one of the league's worst farm systems". Maybe top 10 is a little generous, but 30th overall is way too low in my opinion.

As much as I'd love to acquire Stone, I agree that he will likely cost way too much. North of $8.5M, no thanks. I also agree that Duchene will command a big contract, and the fact that he's having a career year, in a contract year, at the age of 28, no thanks. The only high profile player I would target in free agency over the next couple years is Trouba. 8-9 what? Million? per season? He's not going to ask anything close to that. He won't expect to be the highest paid defenseman in the NHL... I doubt he'd ask much more than he's currently making in Winnipeg to come home and play for his childhood team. If he makes it to free agency, I can see him signing in Detroit in the $6-6.5M range, long term.

I agree with a lot Pronman's rankings, but I wouldn't take everything he writes as gospel. For instance, Bode Wilde being ranked 21st, and Jared McIsaac unranked through 57 prospects... The Sporting News has Tampa at 7, Raddysh at 4, and Dobber Prospects has Tampa at 7, and Raddysh at 3. I've read some scouting reports that say Raddysh needs to work on his skating, and others that say it's fine. The Draft Analyst: "Raddysh is a good skater with good closing speed once he gets the wheels churning, and he uses a long reach to force turnovers. His first step isn’t that quick, but his body positioning and wide silhouette allow him to maintain puck control on the rush despite a general lack of breakaway speed." I'm okay if he's not a burner, as long as he can keep up and produce. And so far in his young pro career, he has proven capable of that. But yeah, I guess we agree on the main point, and that is targeting young somewhat proven prospects over picks at the deadline.

I would say Raddysh' skating is above average. He may lack acceleration, but his speed and overall skating ability is fine. 30 points in 42 games as a rookie in the AHL is pretty solid production, ranking him 8th in the league. Those rankings are based only on Pronman. I've seen plenty other rankings that have Tampa in the top 3rd of the league (#7), and Raddysh ranked 3rd or 4th in their system. Regardless, just using Raddysh as an example. I'd just like to see Holland target some high-end prospects at the deadline. Raddysh would fall into that category for me.

Yeah I hear ya. It just seemed like you would prefer the 1st round pick over a top prospect, which is what I was disagreeing with. Tampa might be reluctant to give up another high end prospect, but that's what I would be targeting if I were in Holland's shoes.

The Lightning have shown a willingness to trade both prospects and picks to compete for a Stanley Cup. Maybe having the best team in the league, as well as a deep prospect pool, and being right up against the 50-man roster limit, they would be willing to trade a Raddysh or Foote. I'm not saying they would make that trade, but that would be my ask. And like I said, if we're trading Nyquist, I'd much rather go after a top prospect in the 19-21 range than a late 1st round pick, or multiple later picks...

No. Yes.

Well in my proposed trade, it was basically what you said, taking on Callahan for a 1st round pick, which I doubt happens on it's own. And then Nyquist for Taylor Raddysh is what I added. You don't expect to get more than that for Nyquist do you? I'd take a top prospect over a pick in the 25+ range any day, and that's even assuming we could get a 1st round pick for him, which isn't a guarantee either.

That was also Gretzky with his shirt off...

There isn't, nor has there ever been any correlation between the size of a player and proneness to injury.

I don't think it's going to happen, but yeah, I'd do it if it were on the table for sure. To TBL: Nyquist (50% salary retained) To DET: Callahan, Raddysh, 2020 1st round pick.

https://theathletic.com/788636/2019/01/28/from-ridiculous-to-realistic-21-potential-targets-for-the-islanders-at-the-trade-deadline/ An article on The Athletic on potential trade targets, specific to the Islanders, but could relate to any deadline buyer... Gustav Nyquist, Red Wings: Probably the most attractive name on the list of rental forwards. He can still score, second on the ugly Wings with 43 points so far, and he’s also a power-play producer. He would improve the Isles team speed, which has been surprisingly good but could use a boost. And, like some of the pipe dreams, he’s a right wing on a team fairly devoid of them. Detroit has a desperate need to sell and so little in terms of what it can realistically move, though, so a second and a mid-range prospect would most likely be the cost. Or a couple of seconds. Not ideal for the Isles, but perhaps necessary, even if Nyquist only stayed for a couple of months. Nick Jensen, Red Wings: The Islanders don’t appear to need much on defense. Toews has made himself a regular and Pelech has steadied enough that the Isles can be patient with Hickey, who may not be back from a suspected concussion until close to the trade deadline. That would give them eight defensemen including Luca Sbisa, seemingly enough to take them down the stretch and into the postseason. If the Isles were to move Pelech in a deal for a forward, then the need on D becomes a bit more urgent, obviously. If there is a need, it’s for a depth right-shot player. Jensen, 28, fills that role, though with rental depth D-men usually in demand, the Isles could get priced out for a player who should bring back nothing more than a fourth-rounder or so.

There's no way Nyquist will get us a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick, but I do think he could get us a 1st OR a 2nd and 3rd round pick (hopefully the former), which I'd be okay with. I've mentioned before that I'd like to keep Jensen, so unless we can get a 2nd round pick for him, I'd keep him. I'm happy with the decision to keep Kronwall. I just hope he's done after this season. I've heard rumblings about him possibly returning, which would be a terrible decision for the team. There's no way Howard gets us a 1st, unless one of the handful of legit contenders (Tampa, Toronto, Washington, Winnipeg, Nashville) lose their starter to a season ending injury. Otherwise, maybe a 2nd if one of the other playoff teams lose their starter. So basically, I think us trading Howard hinges on a starter going down. I don't think he gets traded. It doesn't look like Vanek will be going anywhere with that NTC and limited trade value. Outside of our pending UFA's, I hope Holland is shopping Daley. I doubt he'd garner much of a return coming off an injury, but I'd take a mid round pick just to free up that roster spot. There's always rumors of Athanasiou possibly being traded, but I wouldn't do it, unless it's for a fairly significant return. If it were to happen (doubt it does), it would likely be an offseason trade. Some teams could have interest in Glendening or Helm. I'd trade either, but I wouldn't just give them away.

LOL, now I know you're trolling. You had me there for a bit...

Good point... Do you think he would have slid further had Vancouver not picked him as well?...

McIsaac with another goal and 3 assists in a 4-2 win tonight. Guy has been absolutely on fire since the WJC.

I married one... Unfortunately for me, all my friends are Leafs fans too...

"Like" in the sense that I "like the way he plays the game", not him as a person... But I'm sure you knew what I meant... I like Wilde's physical attributes and his overall skill set. But you don't care as much about skill sets... I think Bode Wilde could be one of the steals of the draft. You disagree, and that's fine. No one is expecting you to "accurately" project how good either of these players are going to be, but you obviously have an opinion, or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

.jpg

I agree that the difference between their PPG is insignificant, I was just pointing out that you were (originally) wrong in stating that McIsaac's PPG was higher. I do find it funny though that you say they're both at 1.1, when Wilde is at 1.19... but whatever. For me, the raw skills (skating, passing, shooting) are more important than the fundamentals (positioning, defensive awareness), especially in the lower leagues, where it's a lot less structured, run-and-gun hockey. Defense can be taught, and I don't think a 6'4", 200lbs. smooth skating defenseman will have much of an issue figuring it out. Besides, I'm not even so sure his defensive game is that much of an issue... https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/283932/bode-wilde "Bode Wilde is a talented and competitive defender that plays a tenacious 200-foot game. His balance and acceleration in-stride is noteworthy and he is never caught in no-man's land, or doing nothing. He is proactive and hard-nosed in pursuit if puck control, and he reads queues in all three zones naturally and quickly. Defensively, he is a beast and always looks to take time and space away from the opposition. He erases the open lane, keeps opponents to the outside, and is physical along the wall. In-transition, he is able to make that outlet pass or, more than likely, take it up himself to set up the trap. Offensively, he showcases a very hard, accurate shot that leaps off his stick. He can also open up space by way of his skating ability, size, and handling of the puck. Thanks to his quick thinking in making the high-percentage decision, he can be very difficult to read and play against. All-in-all, Wilde is a smart, competitive, and sizey two-way D-man that can provide a team with numbers on the board and stability on the ice." A lot of what I've seen and read regarding Wilde's weaknesses is more so him taking risks offensively and getting caught defensively, rather than his actual ability to defend. But again, I would attribute that more to the league he's playing than the player he is, or more importantly, the player he will become. Wilde was projected to go higher than McIsaac on just about every pre-draft board I've seen (significantly higher on some). Cory Pronman recently did a post-draft prospect ranking (top 57 players) and Wilde came in at 21, while McIsaac didn't make the cut. I get it. You really like McIsaac. I do too, but maybe not quite as much as you. Where do you project McIsaac? What about Wilde?

I said I would have taken Wilde over Berggren, not McIsaac. I was very happy with the McIsaac pick. You say that you're more interested in how good a player is going to become, not how good they currently are, and then you rattle off some stats (that are incorrect by the way) about which player is better currently. McIsaac has a 1.12 PPG and Wilde has a 1.19 PPG. Last I checked, 1.19 is higher than 1.12. The OHL is also known to be a tougher league than the QMJHL. And the USDP, where Wilde played last season, definitely is. You're comparing apples to oranges. I'm not sure why Wilde didn't play in the World Juniors. I'm not even sure if he would have played for team Canada. He was born in Quebec, but grew up in Michigan, so maybe he would have played for the US team if he had played in the tournament. Regardless, there are a ton of players cut from these teams that go on to have great careers and players that make their team, and never make the NHL. In my opinion, McIsaac has the higher floor, but Wilde has the higher ceiling. I'd prefer the defenseman with the higher ceiling. Especially in the current state the Red Wings are in now. Loaded with depth, but lack high end talent. I'd like to see some more homerun swings, rather than the safe picks, but that's just me.

Top 4.

I said "probably" won't, and I stand by that. I hope he becomes a 2nd pair defenseman, but at this point, I think 3rd pair is more likely.