krsmith17

You're a miserable c***. I look forward to you getting banned again... I'm not at all a Cholowski slappy. If he were traded tomorrow, I wouldn't give a s***. But until he is traded, you play him to see what you have. A rebuilding team should be playing their 22 year old former 1st round pick, over a 34 year old has-been that his former team literally had to pay to get off their roster and a 32 year old never-has-been that was given away for free. The fact that this is being argued shows how "retarded" you really are. Not that you needed this argument to prove that...

I said at the time that was a bad pick, if he was in fact drafted solely on his ability to play net front on the power-play. You can get those players in the later rounds, and it looks like we may have done just that with Soderblom. I still think Rasmussen can be a capable 3rd liner, but that's not a great look for a 9th overall pick. Svechnikov's value is at an all time low right now. He needs to play this season so we can see what we have in him. Likely another 3rd line winger, but maybe he has a big season and can up his trade value...

I agree, but he should still be in the lineup over players like Filppula, Nielsen and Erne in my opinion. Likewise, Cholowski should be in the lineup over players like Staal and Biega. I'd much rather see a young player playing that might be bad, over an older player that is bad... This should be another developmental season. Treat it as such. Playing Rasmussen, Svechnikov and Cholowski over older washed up players should be a priority this season. We need to find out what we have in them, and this is the year to do it. There are special teams players on every single team in the NHL. Players that are on the team strictly because they can kill penalties or contribute on the power-play. If you're talking about prime Green in Washington, that's a high bar. If you're talking older Green in Detroit, I think Cholowski could maybe be close to that. Yes, that is very concerning, but not because they outplayed Cholowski, but because Cholowski outplayed them, and he still got demoted. Probably for the reason you mentioned though. Daley and Biega would have had to clear waivers, and Cholowski was / is waiver exempt. Please tell me you don't actually think Lashoff was better than Cholowski last season... Again, those signings and trade likely had nothing to do with Cholowski. Stecher and Merrill should be the Daley and Ericsson replacements (upgrades), and Cholowski should, in my opinion, be the Green replacement. Staal was a trade specifically to acquire a 2nd round pick. I'm sure Yzerman wants some competition in camp, and he shouldn't just hand Cholowski a spot in the lineup. Cholowski should absolutely have to earn it. Hopefully he does. I can see the similarities, but I'm not going to assume that to be the outcome. None of this is even an argument for Cholowski specifically. It's an argument that we need more offensively capable defensemen. Maybe Cholowski becomes that. Maybe he doesn't. But I think he should be given every opportunity to prove himself, and this is the year to do that.

Svechnikov hasn't played any better than Jurco up to this point either. We should just waive him now. He's obviously headed down the same path... You don't care about his power-play presence? Do you also not care about a defenseman's penalty-kill presence, if he's bad in the offensive zone? You think every player should be two-way? That's simply not the case. There are more defensemen (and forwards) in the league that are good offensively and not so good defensively, or good defensively and not so good offensively, than defensemen that are really good both offensively and defensively. You really think that "the likes of Ericsson, Daley, Biega, etc." outplayed Cholowski in any capacity last season? They didn't. At all... Those three defensemen are the rare bad offensively and bad defensively... At least Cholowski provides something offensively. This team is going to be bad with or without Cholowski, but if Blashill stays true to "the Red Wings won't make decisions based on what is gonna help them win the game on Tuesday night but what's good for the future" Cholowski most definitely should be in the lineup over Staal and Biega. Yzerman signed Stecher and Merrill because he lost Green, Daley and Ericsson. The Staal trade was a cap dump to acquire a 2nd round pick. None of those moves should have much of an impact on Cholowski.

Well yeah, that's how these things generally go...

What's your point? Kindl and Smith sucked, so Cholowski will suck?

That's fine. I'm all for adding trade bait / acquiring more assets. How the power-play has worked in the past, especially utilizing our biggest weapon (Mantha), has been Cholowski or another capable left-handed QB feeding him from left to right. That comment wasn't meant to be directed at you, but more so the Red Wings organization, trying to mold every player into a two-way stalwart. I can see him starting as the 7th defenseman, but I can also see him earning a spot like he has in each of the past two training camps. He just needs to do a better job and hold onto it the next time he does get it, whether that's in 12 days or 12 games in...

You don't need to pick 1st overall, or top 3, or hell, even the 1st round to get elite talent. It obviously helps, but every year there are elite talents picked later then they should have been. Just look at what Vancouver did in back-to-back drafts. Pettersson was drafted 5th overall in 2017, and Hughes was drafted 7th overall in 2018. If Vancouver had a strong core of young players prior to those two drafts, they'd likely be a top team in the league right now. Instead they had a lot of aging players on bad contracts. The Red Wings have the strong, young core, they just need a couple Pettersson / Hughes calibre picks in the next couple drafts. It's still early, but Yzerman may have two elite talents already picked 6th overall and 4th overall respectively the past two drafts. With another likely top 5 pick in this year's draft, and maybe a little more luck in one of the next two drafts (law of averages). I think we'll get at least one more *elite* talent there. I just hope if it happens, it happens in 2022 with Wright, Savoie and Lambert, rather than 2021 with no real standouts. I'd be content with finishing 28th this season, dropping 4 spots and picking 7th overall, if it means finishing 20th the following season and jumping 10-12 spots and picking top 3...

I hope Blashill stays true to this, but I'll believe it when I see it. Vatanen is another right-handed defenseman though. We already have one of those (Hronek) quarterbacking the other unit. We need a lefty to feed our two best shooters (Mantha and Zadina). Cholowski has already proven to be more than capable in that role. Cholowski may never be great defensively, but he's damn good offensively. Let him play to his strength. Give him sheltered minutes on the 3rd pair with a reliable partner like Merrill or Stecher, offensive zone starts and power-play time, and he'll thrive. Stop trying to turn players into something they're not...

I don't think anyone here thinks we are going to win a Cup with just what we have on the team and in the pipe now. I think everyone would agree that we have a strong core and solid depth, but still lack that elite talent. It's coming.

Yeah, I'd prefer to see... Namestnikov - Rasmussen - Svechnikov Helm - Glendening - Gagner It would be nice if it were always up to the player, but it's really not. We see younger players outperform older players all the time, and they still ride pine. We'll likely see a lot of Staal because of his "veteran presence" and "experience"... Cholowski should be in the lineup most nights, if for no other reason than his ability to quarterback a power-play. The only other defenseman on the roster that can even do a half decent job on the PP, is Hronek. Cholowski obviously isn't anywhere near Hronek, but he is our next best option.

If we're scratching Staal, I'd just assume give Cholowski another opportunity to grab the spot, and hopefully hold onto it this time...

By the looks of this, the lines to start the season (assuming no injuries) could be... Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha Ryan - Fabbri - Zadina Namestnikov - Filppula - Gagner Helm - Glendening - Erne The defense pairings are less clear, but maybe something like... Nemeth - Hronek DeKeyser - Merrill Staal - Stecher

There's tempering expectations, and then there's this s***... If having Seider as a number 4 defenseman, and Raymond as a 3rd line winger isn't trolling, you're admitting you actually are that dumb? Hronek as a 3rd pairing defenseman? Zadina as a 3rd line winger? LOL The fact that you're just naming our last 4 top 10 picks as our only notable prospects, is very telling as to how much you've been paying attention to the development of these prospects. According to you, these players aren't anything more than depth players, but everyone else are "nothing more than prospects"? LOL what does that even mean?

The games I've watched Raymond play with Frolunda he's played on the left side, and he's been playing on the left side with Sweden in WJC as well. Most wingers can play both sides, as I'm sure Ryan can as well. In fact, I'm pretty sure he did at times in his early days with Anaheim. Not sure about recent years, but I can see him slotting in on the left side at times this season.

Raymond is a LW, but like most wingers can play both sides. I think Mantha and Zadina are our top RW of the future, and Raymond and Bertuzzi / Berggren are our top LW of the future.

As everyone here is well aware, I'm very high on Veleno. I still have him above Niederbach, but like I said in the other thread, Niederbach could be the steal of the 2020 draft. I'm really high on him as well. As for Mantha and Zadina, I think Mantha could still be better than Zadina in a few years, but it will be close, and you also need to balance your lines. The jury is still out on Cholowski. I could see it going either way with him. I agree on McIsaac, but if he can overcome the injuries, he could be a really good bottom pair defenseman. I like Viro and Tuomisto, but haven't seen enough of either one of them to have much of an opinion. We definitely have a ton of depth throughout the lineup, but still need an elite game breaker or two, even if Seider and Raymond reach that level.

Yeah, 2019 looks like a solid draft, but by "steal of the draft", I mean relative to where he was picked. There are two or three players I like more than Soderblom in that draft class, but being a 6th round pick, if he makes it in any capacity, he will be considered a big time steal.

< Pessimistic outlook vs Optimistic outlook > Raymond - Larkin - Zadina Bertuzzi - Veleno - Mantha Soderblom - Niederbach - Berggren Smith - Rasmussen - Svechnikov Namestnikov / Fabbri Wallinder - Seider Johansson - Hronek Cholowski - McIsaac Stecher Petruzzelli / Larsson / Bednar My lineup is obviously more optimistic, but also in my opinion, more realistic. Of course some won't meet their potential, but some will exceed their potential. This is only including players in the system now. Some will be removed (trade / free agency), and others will be added (draft / trade / free agency). We should have one, maybe two more top 10 picks in the next two drafts. Imagine this team with Owen Power and Shane Wright added in the next two drafts... Very unlikely, but that would not only be a Cup contender, but a Cup favorite in a few years...

Raymond is going to be an absolute stud. Niederbach is going to be the steal of the 2020 draft. Soderblom is going to be the steal of the 2019 draft. Future is looking bright with these Swedes.

I agree with this. Niederbach looked good in the game against Czech Republic, and really good in the game tonight. It was against Austria, but I still think he stood out above a lot of other players, including Sundsvik.

A lot of Sweden's shots have been coming from the outside. Raymond seems like the only player with a willingness to drive the net and get to the dirty areas. Soderblom had been very impressive. Niederbach has been noticeable as well.

Also Berglund picking up the secondary assist on the 3rd. Raymond has been great. Shook up in the 2nd, but ready to start the 3rd.

I've heard some play by play guys say he's 6'6" or 6'7", but he looks taller than that to me. I would say 6'8" is accurate. He's a big boy, and actually has some legit skill, as shown with his goal against the Czech's the other night. I think he could possibly develope into a solid bottom six winger with some power-play net front minutes in a few years. Gunler with an absolute snipe. That's a player I was really hoping we'd land with one of our many 2nd round picks in this past draft. I liked the Wallinder pick, but Gunler would have been nice too...

Guy is a troll. Even he's not that dumb... Mantha (2W) is a top line winger. Larkin (2C) is a top line center. Zadina (3W) will be a top six winger. Raymond (3W) will be a top line, maybe elite winger. Rasmussen and Smith are the only forwards slotted correctly. Also missing, Bertuzzi is a middle six winger, Fabbri is a middle six winger, Veleno will be a middle six center, Berggren will be a middle six winger, as well as a few others that will likely make it... Seider (4D) will be a top pair, maybe number one defenseman. Hronek (6D) is a top four defenseman. Cholowski is slotted about right. Also missing, Johansson and Wallinder both have top four, or at the very least top six potential, as well as a few others that will likely make it... We're still a ways away, but things aren't that grim...