krsmith17

Larkin is well worth $6M now and definitely will be 2+ years from now. Yes, athletes in general are overpaid, but it's market value. You're still not addressing the point though. If you waive Frk or Witkowski, who sits? Keep in mind it won't be any of the veterans that you'd like to sit. It would be one of the younger players. If we're over the cap, a trade will need to happen. It sucks to be cap strapped while rebuilding, but it shouldn't be an issue beyond this season. A lot of big contracts will come off the books over the next two seasons. Until then, I'm sure Holland will figure it out. I don't expect Zadina to make the team out of camp (unless there is a trade), but he'll be up sooner than later I think.

You keep saying this, but it makes no sense to waive either of these players unless you expect a player like Glendening to sit every night (not going to happen). A veteran is not going to sit, so without Frk and Witkowski we'd have one of Athanasiou, Bertuzzi, Rasmussen or Zadina in the press box every night...

I agree with trying to get that extra year (or three), but Larkin is definitely worth $6M. I'd even go higher if we could get longer term.

You're dumb as bricks.

What did I state as fact? I haven't once stated Faulk hitting free agency as fact. "I think he will". No, Larkin and Mantha being career Red Wings is not a fact, but I'd bet on it. You wouldn't? None of what you're saying changes the fact that RFA and UFA are completely different. The whole world recognizes this EXCEPT you, JM. LOL now I'm comparing Faulk to Doughty, Karlsson and Burns am I? Go crawl back under your bridge. It's safer down there...

Yeah, the defensive core is still looking rather bleak, but I'm hopeful that McIsaac can climb into that top 10 after this season. And maybe one of Cholowski or Hronek can develop into a top pair defenseman we do desperately need. I still haven't given up on Svechnikov, but he's reminding me more and more of Jurco. All the skill in the world, but unable to put it all together at the NHL level. I'll still say the same thing I said about Jurco though. He'll be a very good middle six winger... hopefully. I honestly forgot about Hicketts when i did my ranking. He still wouldn't crack my top 10, but he'd probably be in my top 15... maybe.

Pretty reasonable list. My list would be... 1. Larkin 2. Zadina 3. Mantha 4. Veleno 5. Rasmussen 6. Cholowski 7. Athansiou 8. Bertuzzi 9. Hronek 10. Svechnikov 11. Berggren 12. McIsaac 13. Smith 14. Lindstrom 15. Turgeon 16. Pope A few names could be moved up or down a spot or two, but give or take, this is where I'm at...

I'm not sure why it bothers you so much that I'm not quite as HYPED about Rasmussen as you clearly are... I think he'll be a very good top 6 winger, which is great. You're acting like he'll be elite. I don't think he will be, but I sure as hell hope you're right on this one. I rank him 4th or 5th on our forward depth chart (including roster players and prospects). Where do you rank him? I'm assuming 2nd behind Larkin?

Another hot take, especially considering the players we've picked in that time. I'm just happy that Larkin AND Rasmussen will be better than Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and co. Exciting times. My question is, if Zadina isn't as good as Ras, will he at least be as good or better than some of the other scrubs mentioned?

Again, comparing apples to oranges I see... RFA and UFA are completely different circumstances... Mantha will still be a restricted free agent when this contract expires. Larkin is a restricted free agent now, and will either still be after a short bridge deal, or will be extended long term (and become our future captain). Neither are going anywhere and you know that. Remember how I mentioned Faulk hasn't really had an opportunity to walk until after his current six year contract is up (in two years)? The same will be the case with Mantha and Larkin. Sure they could hold out or demand a trade, but how many players actually do that? It's not going to happen. Hopefully this team will be competitive enough and still maintain that "winning culture" 8 years from now when they become unrestricted free agents and they're life long Red Wings.

Yes, believe it or not, Mantha and a 1st round pick are "significant pieces".

I have nothing against Rasmussen, I just see him as more of a winger. Hopefully he can be a legit top 6 winger (or center) and power-play specialist. I think Veleno will be a very good top 6 center. I also don't give a s*** about Vilardi. He's an LA King. F*** that guy!

Um. I never said anything about passing on Jack f***ing Hughes... Also Veleno >>> Rasmussen. I'm not sure if you noticed, but my ">>>" > your ">>", so it's obvious Veleno will be better. Time will tell. First of all it's a Veleno Hype "Train", not a f***ing Wagon... And that train will run you over, back up, and run you over again and again. Deal with it! That's certainly a hot take...

He's the younger brother of Quinn, who was the defenseman taken by the Canucks in this year's draft, so that's where you're probably getting confused. They are American, from Florida. I think we have our top 6 centers of the future in Larkin and Veleno. Bottom 6, who cares. Turgeon and whoever else. I see Rasmussen as more of a winger, but who knows, he may develop as a center as well. But like I said, I think Hughes will play on the wing in the NHL, and left-handed wingers is definitely not something this team is lacking... I'm not sure if there are any elite defensemen coming out of next year's draft (of course that can change), so the guy I like right now is Dylan Cozens.

I'd hear the argument for Green, but disagree completely on Daley. Either way, neither are long term solutions, being 30+ years old, and will be long gone before we're ready to contend again. I don't think Cholowski or Hronek will be as good as Trouba, but I guess it's possible. I think it's more likely that they top out as top 4 defenseman, but I guess that's all you believe Trouba to be (I disagree)... Sorry, I wasn't avoiding the question, just misread. I seen 7, and for whatever reason assumed you were referring to term, not cap hit. I probably wouldn't go quite $7M, but I'd be comfortable giving him around $6-6.5M. Which is pretty reasonable consider it's only a $0.5-1M lower than his original ask.

I agree that Hughes wouldn't likely be a savior to whichever team wins next year's draft lottery, but Hughes is a center, not a defenseman. Although, I see him more of a winger at the NHL level. He's said to be a lot like Patrick Kane, which is great (minus the off-ice s***), but I don't think he puts us (or any team) over the top. He's not on the level of a McDavid, or even Matthews or Eichel in my opinion.

Yes, I would lock him up for 7 years. 8 if he were traded as an RFA. What defenseman in our system do you consider better than Trouba?

I don't know what else, just saying that you were a bit off saying that I would overpay for Trouba, when all I said was I wouldn't give up Larkin, Mantha or Zadina, which I think is fair. Trouba being the 3rd best right handed defenseman on Winnipeg is debatable. I think he's a better all around defenseman than Myers, but that's just my opinion. Even if he is the 3rd best right handed defenseman on that team, that doesn't say much. They're stacked in that area. It's like saying Nylander isn't a top line forward because he's the 4th or 5th best on the Leafs. I think Trouba would instantly be our best defenseman, and better than anyone we have in the pipeline. Do you disagree with that?

36 45 Where is this coming from? Trouba is a legit top pair defenseman that can eat big minutes, play in all situations, and put up 0.5 points per game. What do you think it would cost to get him or similar player? Better question, where did I say I would give up a huge haul for Trouba? Do you think Athanasiou, plus is too much to give up for him?

I don't think we'll get Trouba, but what would it realistically take to get him? I wouldn't want to give up Larkin, Mantha or Zadina, but I'd trade anyone else in a package.

Haha I know, and I'm okay with it. At least it's something to talk about in a pretty boring offseason... I'd probably be better off talking to my 5 year old niece though... Pretty sure she has more common sense / hockey knowledge than JM... Faulk has played for one NHL team. What's your point? He's never had the opportunity to play for any other team. He was drafted by Carolina in 2010, signed his entry level contract the following season, and made the Canes out of camp. Three years later he became an RFA and signed a six year contract which would take him into UFA status for the first time in 2020. He has never had the opportunity to test the open market, and the fact that he will be one of the top defenders available, I'd say the chances of him doing so is rather high. You can't seriously think walking as a first time UFA can be compared to not holding out as an RFA or demanding a trade... I didn't say he doesn't want to be in Detroit, I'm saying regardless of where he is two years from now, I think he'll hit free agency (unless he's traded to a legit contender that can afford to keep him). If / when he does hit the open market, he'll have a lot of things to consider. One being money, which I'm sure we could afford to pay him. Two, location / history, and we have a brand new state of the art facility and a rich history that could entice him. And three, and this is the biggest one in my mind, going to a contender, and I doubt we'll be viewed as a true contender by then... If we are, why not just go after him two years from now? We will not contend in the next two years, so why go after a player that has an expiring contract in that time? It makes zero sense... For the same reason, I have no interest in going after Erik Karlsson or any pending free agent... If you still don't understand why trading significant pieces for a soon to be free agent is a terrible idea for a rebuilding team, I'm not sure what else to say...

Yup, and when Faulk walks two years from now because your team is still nowhere close to being a contender, and he's set to be one of the best defensemen hitting the open market, you're left with no Faulk, no Mantha, and no 1st round pick... and you look like an idiot... It's the dumba** GM's that make the dumba** trades such as this one. No bottom 3rd of the league team would give up there best young winger, and a first round pick for two years of any player, but of course you think it's a great idea... What do you think a bottom 5 team would give us right now for Green, Daley, Nyquist or Howard? Probably not much eh? You know why? Because. it. makes. no. sense...

Only thing I agree with you on...

I said multiple times that I know that package wouldn't get it done. It's going to take one of Zadina, Mantha or Athanasiou plus a first round pick to get Faulk is it? Okay... Would you give up that sort of package for two years of Faulk? You probably would, because you're... not smart... We can still "pry" Trouba away from Winnipeg... And THAT is the sort of trade I would give up major assets for, not Faulk, or any other soon to be free agent.

At this stage of their careers Faulk is better, but not by a large margin. If I had the choice between two more years of Green or two years of Faulk, I'd choose the latter every time.