krsmith17

You're comparing Hamilton to Lidstrom now? You don't trade a 2C that will likely develop into a 1C, a top defense prospect, who will likely develop into a number 2 or 3 defenseman, and a 6th overall pick, who could have the same sort of ceiling (or maybe higher) as the guy you're advocating trading for... Again, it's dumb. IF Holland were dumb enough to offer that sort of package for Hamilton (lucky for us, he's not) Treliving would do it without hesitation and Holland would (hopefully) lose his job. Larkin is a cornerstone. The 6th overall pick will likely be a cornerstone. And you think we should trade both, plus another piece for one cornerstone. Great managerial skills...

What does this even mean?...

Yes, I am aware... What does that have to do with anything, other than further my point? We're rebuilding...

Because you can. Why wouldn't you? Yeah, it's probably much smarter to skip the negotiation process and just massively overpay right off the bat... I don't care if they're in the driver's seat, you still don't massively overpay. Teams can afford to overpay when they're a Cup contender. Teams that aren't, can't. Simple as that. You don't give up multiple assets including a 6th overall pick (in one of the best drafts in years), your best player (who is only 21 years old), and your top defense prospect, for one, albeit very good young defenseman, if you're a rebuilding team. I don't care if it's three "unknowns" for a known. You don't do it. It's dumb.

Yeah, most number one defensemen are acquired through the draft. No doubt. And like you said, very few number one defensemen hit free agency, and the ones that do, are usually massively overpaid. I agree with all that. The thing I disagree with is trading for one. Not many established number one defensemen are traded, and same as free agency, the ones that are, you have to massively overpay for (in assets). However, trading for a young, un-established defensemen doesn't cost nearly as much. Of course it can be a bit of a gamble, because they're not sure things, but a 19, 20, 21 year old is a little more of a sure thing than a 17, 18 year old off the draft table. Hamilton was traded three years ago and has developed into a number one. Theodore was traded last year and will likely develop into a number one. I'm not convinced we couldn't have traded for Theodore before he was traded in the expansion draft, but that's different rant... There are players like this out there now. It's just going to take some balls from our GM to pull it off. Did he mean what he said in making a hockey trade? If so, make one for a young defenseman with the potential to become a 1D... Get it done Kenny!

The problem though is that I don't see 7 years at $7-7.5M all that unreasonable, and is likely the bare minimum he will get. I can totally see Carlson getting $8.5M+. That's when you have to ask yourself if you really want to sign him to that sort of contract. I'd love to have Carlson on this team, but I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable giving him that much for that long. But again, I'd definitely consider it if we could offload a couple bigger contracts. I agree with everything else. We desperately need a high end defenseman to lead and teach the kids, and I'm not sure how confident I am in Kronwall or Daley being that player. This defense could (should) get really young, really quick, and I believe Carlson would be a good mentor to lead players like Cholowski and *Bouchard*... I honestly think Holland would be more willing / able to trade Ericsson than DeKeyser. At this point, I'd be shocked, no scrap that, a little surprised if Green is re-signed. Yeah, I'd move any and all of Daley, Helm, Nyquist and Athanasiou, among others. Free up cap space and roster spots. Accelerate this rebuild...

I value offense and puck possession above defense and playing without the puck, absolutely. I don't think Karlsson is close to the best defenseman in the league. I much prefer more well rounded defensemen like Hedman, Doughty, Pietrangelo. But yes, Karlsson is a better defenseman than Manson, and it's not even close. No, I don't think I'm "inside the minds of 31 NHL GM's"... However, you're right, I do laugh off a lot of your opinions because you say things like "Manson is better than Karlsson". "Sambrook is better than Cholowski". "We don't have a single top line forward, or top 3 defenseman on the team or in the system". etc, etc, etc...

Yes, teams need to build through the draft in the cap era, but to be successful, you also need to be willing / able to make key trades as well. Holland has mentioned this in his end of season press conference. He said he's willing to make a player for player "hockey trade". No one's really expecting to get any of the established top defensemen, but maybe we can get a young, un-established defenseman from a team (like Carolina, Philadelphia, Nashville) that has a plethora of high end defensemen on their roster and in their system. Trades can and should be made. Hopefully Holland puts his words into action and has a big offseason...

I don't know it all, nor have I ever claimed to. I addressed the "Trouba nonsense" in the other thread. None of the above claims about Manson's game come close to equaling "best defenseman in the league"... Manson is a good defenseman, but I wouldn't even say he's the best on the Ducks, let alone best in the league...

Yup, your deals definitely make sense FOR THE OTHER TEAM. Unfortunately, they don't at all FOR THE RED WINGS... Please tell me, what would you trade for Josh Manson? Since he's going to be the best defenseman in the world, I would expect a king's ransom sort of deal... Larkin, Mantha, Rasmussen, Cholowski, 2018 6th overall pick, 2019 1st round pick, Carley Johnston, Al Sobotka, and a lifetime supply of Little Caesars Pizza? Sounds fair... You put WAY too much stock into where players were drafted 5+ years ago. It literally means nothing. In your mind, Frk for Gaudreau would be a bad trade because Frk was drafted in the 2nd round and Gaudreau was drafted in the 4th round... By the way, I said I don't think Athanasiou would get us a 1st round pick or top prospect, so don't act like I said he would get us Trouba straight up. I didn't and I don't. Who knows though, if negotiations between Cheveldayoff and Trouba go south (again), maybe he'll want out (again). If that were to happen, Holland better be calling. You think Athanasiou, Hronek and the 2018 29th overall pick is low-balling? I'd hate to see what you'd offer... Trouba isn't quite as established as Hamilton, so instead of your ludicrous offer of Larkin, Cholowski and the 6th overall pick, it would just be Larkin and the 6th overall pick?... I may low-ball some of my "armchair GM" trades, but they're definitely a lot more realistic than your massive over-payments.

I wouldn't say "highly" unlikely. I'd give it a 50/50 chance. I legitimately think he would make any other team out of camp in the bottom 8 of the league. You're right that he probably wouldn't make the Wings though. Not because he shouldn't, but because of the ridiculous log jam of mediocre defensemen... But yeah, he's definitely the most NHL ready outside of Dahlin.

Go Jets! Hoping for a Jets Caps Final! Really though, I'm okay with any of the final 4 winning the Cup. Winnipeg - probably my 2nd favorite team for the past few years. Vegas - amazing story. Tampa - Yzerman Washington - money.

Wow... I've heard some outlandish s*** (a lot from you), but this one takes the cake... Josh Manson is a decent defenseman, but will never be top 10, let alone "the best defenseman in the league"... I'll bet anything that Shea Theodore (the player the Ducks gifted the Golden Knights in favor of Manson) will be twice as good and Josh Manson...

Terrible deal. Calgary makes out like bandits. Holland loses his job the following day.

I agree. I've always been a big Scheifele fan. Very underrated. I think that's about to change though...

Huh? You can't be saying you think it would cost all three of those pieces for Hamilton... are you?... It would cost a lot, but not close to that...

Yeah, I don't see Cholowski or Hronek as anything more than 2/3 defensemen. I think if we take Bouchard with our 6th overall pick, he could make the Wings roster out of camp, immediately be one of our better defensemen, and develop into a legit 1D within a few years. The most we'd be able to sign Carlson would be 7 years, and I'd be comfortable with $7.5M, if we could offload one of Ericsson, DeKeyser or Daley, or if Kronwall ends up on LTIR. I'm really hoping this D-corp goes through a major overhaul over the next two seasons. I'd be okay if DeKeyser is the only defenseman remaining in two years time. And I'd definitely be okay with Carlson being part of that group, but only if we can A) get him on a reasonable contract, and B) offload a big contract / free up a roster spot. DeKeyser - Carlson Cholowski - Bouchard Sulak - Hronek That could be a pretty solid defense in a couple years time...

The power of hindsight... You can say the same for literally any draft year, any team, any position. I think between Larsson, Petruzzelli, and Fulcher, we should have at least one quality goaltender coming in the next 2-3 years.

Key word, "apparently". I don't really buy it. I doubt he gets moved, but if he were to be shopped, there would be 20+ teams inquiring.

At first I thought you were saying that you'd trade Cholowski and our 6th overall pick for Hamilton... I was like "Hells No!" Then I reread, and I agree. Bouchard (hopefully), Cholowski, Hronek is a nice start to rebuilding this defense, but adding a Hamilton type defenseman gets us to the next level, potentially a Cup contending D-corp.

I'm kind of the opposite. I've wanted Carlson on this team for a looong time. I've always been a big fan of his, and think he's a very underrated defenseman. In saying that, he's coming off a career year, and that monster play has translated into the playoffs. He's going to get Paid this offseason. And while I'd be comfortable paying him what he's worth, I don't know if I'm comfortable in getting into a bidding war and overpaying him, which would be the case. Carlson would make this team (defense) infinitely better, so I'd obviously reach out and throw out an offer. I wouldn't go much above $7M, 5-6 year term, and I think he's going to get $8M+ at max term. Of course, depending on how he / the Caps do for the remainder of the playoffs, I think there's a strong chance he'll re-up in Washington anyway.

Yeah, Hamilton would be a great addition, but if it's going to cost Larkin or Mantha, I'd decline. As I've said many times now, if we're looking to acquire a top end defenseman via trade, we're probably not going to be comfortable with the ask on any of the established, veteran guys, so I'd much prefer go after a younger, potential top end guy. While Rasmus Andersson looks to be a very promising prospect, he wouldn't be my number one target. He seems to basically be a slightly bigger (heavier) version of Hronek, that doesn't skate quite as well, and is slightly less skilled offensively.

I'd love to have Hamilton on this team, and I'd give up quite a bit to get him.

I'd prefer to go with a center with pick 33 or 36 (Ty Dellandrea?), but other than that I pretty much agree. If we can get Bouchard and Bokk with those first two picks, I'll be thrilled.

I'd love this trade. Unfortunately, I highly doubt Cheveldayoff would do it...