krsmith17

That hypothetical situation you speak of isn't a reality though. Any players that are rumored to move, are because teams are inquiring about them, not because Holland is trying to get rid of them. Holland is not trying to get rid of Nyquist or Tatar any more than he's trying to get rid of Glendening. The only player Holland is (should be) actively shopping is Green, because he's a pending UFA.

That's why you lock up Larkin, Mantha and Athanasiou first, and then work on a deal with Green. If you need cap space you move one of your mid tier roster players (they can be moved). You don't let your best defenseman walk. He will be offered more, but why does it matter if he truly wants to stay in Detroit? If he wants to chase the money, let him. No one said anything about $3-4M, but $4.5-5M isn't out of the realm of possibility. He absolutely can help this current roster, as well as the guys almost ready. We don't want to become Edmonton, Buffalo or Arizona. You still need good players and a good environment for the kids coming up. Green would be an ideal player for Hronek to learn from. Anyway, I want Green back. Hopefully we trade him in the next couple days, and re-sign him this summer. You never tell a team you want what you believe the player is actually worth. You start high. That's how negotiations work. If Holland's ask was a 2nd, he likely believes he's worth a 3rd, and would probably even accept a 4th. A 5th is a little low in my opinion. But again, all a part of negotiations...

Market dictates value, not any one player or any one team. You can't say a player is worth a 1st round pick / top prospect, if there is no team willing to pay that price. And if your a team that should be selling (like we are), you should be selling any and every UFA that you have to the highest bidder. You don't hang onto Green, just because your perceived value isn't there. If the most a team offers is a 3rd round pick, you take it. Fortunately for us, that won't be the case. You're going to refuse picks just because they only have a 25% chance of making the NHL? That's still a 25% chance you get an NHL player. 2nd round picks only have about a 40% chance of becoming NHL players. 1st round picks are around 80% chance. It is possible that we miss out on our 1st(s), 2nd(s) and hit a homerun with one of our 3rds. Look at 2011 when we missed on all three 2nd round picks (Jurco, Ouellet and Sproul). Or 2012 when we took Frk in the 2nd round and (who I assume is your favorite current Red Wing) Athanasiou in the 4th (which holds about a 20% chance of becoming an NHL player). We do NEED to trade Green, even if the return is underwhelming. Also, the fact that you see more value in Glendening than Nyquist or Tatar is laughable. I don't necessarily want to give Glendening away, but a 3rd or 4th round pick would be fair value for him. Of course Holland started high, and Toronto started low, which means his value is likely somewhere in between. Glendening is not a "integral part of our team". He's a replaceable 4th liner. If we move him, we promote Turgeon and lose very little short term and likely gain the better player long term. Nyquist / Tatar are both worth much more. And neither should be moved as a cap dump. We don't need the cap space, and we don't have any wingers in the system banging on the door to take their spots. Svechnikov is struggling and aside from him, there's no one ready. The chance of Svech coming in and replacing Nyquist's / Tatar's production is slim to none. Green - Hopefully a 1st or high end prospect, but you take best offer on the table. Glendening - 3rd or 4th round pick, but doesn't need to me moved. Nyquist / Tatar - 2nd round pick (and maybe a prospect), but don't need to be moved. Ouellet - late round pick, but probably doesn't have any value. Howard - 2nd round pick, but shouldn't be moved. We do not want a tandem of Coreau and McCollum...

Green does need to be traded because he's a UFA. However, he doesn't need to be traded because we need the cap space or the roster spot. Trading him for assets and bringing him back is the best thing for this team, both short term and long term. I do think he would take less than he's making now. Sure, other teams would be interested in him, but he's stated several times that he wants to stay in Detroit. If that is true, he should be willing to take a pay cut. Why would you not take him back? He's far and away our best defenseman, and no one in the organization would be able to come close to replacing him. It makes no sense...

Your original response was "Lidstrom is better than Potvin". There was no such comparison made by me. If I'm comparing apples to oranges, you're comparing apples to orangutans... Whatever though, I guess I should have never mentioned Lidstrom... There has never been as much HYPE surrounding a draft eligible defenseman as there currently is with Rasmus Dahlin. Period. HYPE! Fixed.

I think Hicketts is ready, and would be surprised if he doesn't make the team at some point next season. He would be a good replacement for Daley if we were able to move him, although I know that won't happen. I'm not even necessarily saying we should get rid of Daley, just that it wouldn't make a huge difference either way. Losing Green would make a huge difference. Hronek is likely another full season away, although I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a look at some point between now and then. He may even get a call-up as soon as next week, after Green is traded...

Exactly why it would be dumb to let Green walk. Our defense is a mess right now. Imagine this defense without Green... All of a sudden, our best offensive defenseman is Nick Jensen? That's kind of scary... Again, this team doesn't need more mediocre defensemen (Daley), whether they're young or old. We need difference makers on the blue line (Green), no matter their age.

Green never should have been a 3rd pair defenseman in Washington. Nor should he be a number one here. He is still a top 2 in this league though. Number 3 at worst. His numbers support this. This team's biggest issue, like I said previously, is that we have too many players playing up the lineup. We have 2nd pairing defensemen playing top pair, bottom pairing defensemen playing 2nd pair, etc. Letting Green walk just adds to that problem. Green has 29 points in 56 games. Daley has 9 points in 55 games. That's a huge gap in production. Green has gotten the bulk of power-play time because he's by far the best quarterback on the team. No one (including Daley) is close. Daley has 0 power-play points in 30 minutes, and Green has 13 power-play points in 136 minutes. Daley hasn't looked good on the power-play in the few games Green has missed either. Without Green our power-play struggles, and team struggles. Anyway, my point is, no single player on this team or in the system can replace the production Green brings to this team. However, I believe a number of players could replace Daley's production, minutes and defensive ability. If we didn't sign Daley, and we let any of Ouellet / Sproul / Hicketts take his spot, I don't think our defense looks all that different. If we don't re-sign Green, and we let one of Ouellet / Hicketts take his spot, I think our defense is MUCH worse. Daley plays 20 minutes a night. Give 16 of those minutes to a younger player, and spread the other 4 minutes among the other five defensemen. Daley has put up 9 points, easily replaceable. Daley is good defensively and plays on the penalty kill, so are / can Ouellet and Hicketts. Hicketts is very good defensively and a great penalty killer. He's not afraid to go to the dirty areas, loves hitting and blocking shots. The only thing that none of these guys would have been able to replace is Daley's leadership and other off-ice qualities. Everything he does on the ice, I believe could be replaced from within. I think you're overstating how close these players are to one another. I don't see it at all...

It's also possible that if he refuses a trade, that the relationship could sour and he may not be offered another contract this summer. Green will (likely already has)provide Holland with a trade list. The only way Green doesn't get traded is if he is injured worse than the team is letting on and fails his physical. Otherwise, even if his value plummets all the way to a measly 3rd round pick (won't happen), Holland will take the best offer on the table. It would be dumb for Green not to accept a trade, and even dumber for Holland not to trade him. He will be traded before Monday, 3pm EST. I do agree with you on the return though. I still think he should get at least a 1st or a top prospect, but it's very possible, with all the other defensemen potentially available, that his stock could drop. I'm still doubtful that Ottawa trades Karlsson, or New York trades McDonagh at the deadline, but if both of those guys are available along with Johnson and Hjalmarsson, teams might go after one of the bigger fish (former two), or settle with one of the cheaper options (latter two)... We're all obviously hoping for the 1st or top prospect, but two 2nd's wouldn't surprise me at all...

Ranking 30th in points, 32nd in points per game, 21st in power-play points, 51st in time on ice among all defensemen equals "middle of the road vet"?... Green is a solid top three defenseman on any team, top 2 on most, number one on ours, and we should just let him walk? He's well worth $4.5-5M for another 2-3 years.

Not really though. Anyone we have in the system that may be ready would fill a smaller role as a depth defenseman, not as a top pair defenseman. We had / have defensemen in the system that could fill Daley's role. I don't believe we have anyone that could fill Green's role right away. We have a ton of depth, we just lack the top end guys. I still see Green as a top end guy for another couple seasons. Daley, not so much. The biggest problem I see with our defense (and team in general), is we have too many guys playing above their skill level. Letting Green walk, and replacing him internally would even further that problem. I do think a player like Hicketts could have / can fill Daley's role now.

I'd be fine with that. Sign our RFA's, make a pitch to Tavares, then sign Green. I have a problem signing below average vets (Daley), not very good vets (Green).

I don't understand this mentality. Green is and has been our best defenseman, and he would continue to be just that for another couple seasons (if we re-sign him). If we want / need to shed cap space, it can be done without denying our best defenseman another contract. If he truly does want to stay in Detroit, and he doesn't want to test free agency, he should be willing to take a pay cut to do so. I'm thinking he will be traded at the deadline, come back to Detroit for somewhere in the $4.5-5.5M range for another 2-3 seasons. And in my opinion, that's well worth it for a defenseman that can still put up 30-40 points a season. Well, @Neomaxizoomdweebie did suggest that Green might not get traded before the deadline. Not necessarily that it makes sense though. Although I would like to know if Neo would be okay with Green not being traded, or what makes him/her believe there's even a remote possibility that he doesn't...

We don't have the assets that Ottawa would be looking for, without completely depleting our team / farm system. Larkin would have to be involved along with multiple other high end prospects / picks. Even then, another team would likely offer more. I was skeptical of the idea of trading for Karlsson before, but after hearing their "asking price", no way would I even consider it. I think Yzerman is going to go hard after him. Tampa is the one team that could probably give up close to what Ottawa are asking, without crippling their team too much.

I agree that there may be some disappointed fans on February 26th. But that's because their expectations on the return for Green (among other players) is through the roof. Green WILL be traded though. There's no way he doesn't waive his no trade clause to go to a contender for a few months for a chance at a Cup. After all, that is the ultimate goal of every hockey player. No chance Mike Green is a Red Wing beyond February 26th. I do think it's possible that he could be the only player moved though... which would be very disappointing...

So? The point is no one has been as hyped as Swedish fenom Rasmus Dahlin leading up to their draft year. I just included three of the best Swedish defensemen of the past 30 years. Why didn't you have a problem with me using Karlsson as a comparison? He wasn't all that hyped either leading up to his draft. No more than a Ryan Merkley or Rasmus Sandin (who?) this year. Karlsson went 15th overall, 7th defenseman taken in 2008. I was comparing the hype all of the players I mentioned to the hype surrounding Dahlin leading up to this year's draft. I was not comparing Potvin to Lidstrom in any way...

... because Potvin was more hyped than Lidstrom or literally any other defenseman in the history of the NHL draft... until this year's draft with Dahlin...

"Leading up to the draft"... Potvin was a highly coveted 1st overall pick. Lidstrom was some Swedish kid selected in the 3rd round that very few teams knew anything about...

Who said he wasn't?

There's talk of Tampa going hard after Karlsson... That would be insane. The crazy thing is, they actually have the disposable assets to get a deal done. What do people think it would cost Yzerman? Brayden Point, Cal Foote, 2018 1st round pick, 2019 2nd round pick?... Would that be enough? Too much?...

Nashville may not be looking for a depth winger anymore... They may look to Eeli Tolvanen, who they selected 30th overall in last year's draft. He had a very strong showing at the WJC as well as the Olympics. They expect him to finish off his season in the KHL with Jokerit and then come over to help the Preds go on a Cup run...

Green wants to go back to Detroit because he likes it there, and started a family there, not because he thinks he has a legitimate chance at winning a Cup. Not a single NHL player wants to lose games so their team has a better chance at the number one pick. Why would Green want Holland to get a higher pick in trading him? That's not how they think. If Green wants a real shot at winning a Cup, he should do exactly what he's doing, only accept a trade to the favorite. He should be hoping that Yzerman gets him relatively cheap, so that he has room to possibly add another piece to even further their chance to win it all. I really think you're setting yourself up to be disappointed with the return on Green. As well as the number of players you want moved / cap you want shed...

That shouldn't matter. You still move him and re-sign him this summer, assuming both parties are on the same page with him coming back (I think they are). Not trading Green at the deadline would be a monumental mistake.

To be fair, I'm the one that initially said we don't need the cap space. That's what chaps was responding to. But my point was that we didn't need the cap space bad enough to move any of our bad contracts. If we wanted to move Nielsen (or whoever), we could, but we'd have to retain dollars, and add a pick / prospect to entice a team to take him. Only a team re-building would be willing to make such a trade, and us being a rebuilding team ourselves, wouldn't make much sense from our perspective. I don't like that we traded Mrazek for such a small return, but it has nothing to do with not needing the cap space. I just think he still has the potential to be a good goaltender in this league. I am rooting for him in Philadelphia, and not just for the upgraded picks. I do think we should be looking to move some players at the deadline, but that's more for the future assets and to free up roster spots than it is for the cap space. No, a rebuilding team shouldn't also be the highest cap team, but we shouldn't be in a huge rush to shed cap space.

No they're not. How many times does it need to be said around here? There. are. no. unmoveable. contracts. Teams prove it every single year. Abdelkader, Nielsen, Ericsson, etc, etc, can all be moved with a little creativity. The only reason a team in our position should try to move these contracts though, is if we need cap space. We don't. Who most Leafs fans aren't a fan of... Surprisingly, a lot of Leafs fans really want Glendening and see him as a big upgrade over Moore.