krsmith17

Glendening is better than White. Butcher has never played a game pro, and likely isn't better than half our defensemen, let alone "most". Sheahan is better than Booth. But yeah, let's just make change for the sake of change. The grass is always greener...

1. Uh... 2. I wouldve liked this a few years ago. Implying you don't like it now. 3. Shall we re-sign Weiss now? Implying Booth is washed up (he probably is) and would be a bad signing like Weiss.

Haha I swear you just like to complain about anything. In another thread you said you would have liked to sign Ryan White to a PTO, now you complain that we signed Booth to a PTO... I don't really think we should sign Booth either, but I guess a PTO isn't a bad thing. I'm just not sure how we can sign him to an actual contract in our situation...

Why? Ryan White is a slightly s***tier / older version of Luke Glendening. You wanted to sign Will Butcher. You want to sign Ryan White. Neither of these guys would break the bank, but would still cost money against the cap. For a team that is in cap hell, still doesn't have enough money to sign Athanasiou, and has enough depth players, White is the last thing this team needs.

I'll be going down for a trip at some point this season. I was leaning toward the December 15th game against the Leafs, but not sure yet.

Athanasiou will be re-signed. Vanek will not be re-signed.

Like kliq said, I think our roster is pretty much set in stone already. Maybe if we had a couple vacancies, things would be different, but I just don't see Holland calling up a waiver exempt player to send down a waiver eligible player. I think it's possible that a player like Svechnikov could have a strong camp and out-produce some players, but I don't necessarily think that means he deserves a spot in Detroit right away either. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve a spot, but my personal opinion is that he needs another half to full season down in Grand Rapids. Svech had a very good rookie season, but I'd like to see him build off that and become a dominant, point per game (or close to it) player before he gets the call in Detroit. I'd like to see Frk have a strong camp and make the team as a 3rd line, power-play specialist. If he can be utilized similarly to Vanek, playing sheltered minutes, getting offensive zone starts and time on the power-play, I think he could be a good addition to our bottom six / power-play. He's out of options (again), so this could be his last shot at any sort of chance in the NHL. I somewhat agree with the first part, but completely disagree with the part regarding Cholowski. By "ultimate failure" and "awful", I assume you mean he won't even crack the NHL? That's ridiculous to me. Cholowski has all the tools to become a very good top 4 (possibly even a top pair) defenseman. And that's about what you should expect from a mid to later first round pick. He has great vision, is a great skater and passer, which in my opinion are the 3 main qualities you should look for in a defenseman. I have high hopes for Cholo.

I don't think it would be out of the question, but I wouldn't count on it, not for this coming season anyway. I can see Athanasiou getting close to 40 (assuming he's a Red Wing), and if all goes well, I can see Tatar cracking 50 again. Same goes for Nyquist.

I think Son of a Wing is right, that the Connor Brown contract is a very good comparable. I still think it should be somewhere around $2-2.25M for 2-3 years, only because he's an RFA and has very little leverage (other than the supposed KHL offer). Otherwise, I wouldn't have any problem with a $3M x 3 years contract, as I think he would outperform it, if not next year, definitely in years 2 and 3.

Yes, 111-120 is the visitors end, where the Wings would shoot twice. Being on the opposite side in the Wings end, 107-124, gives you a better view for warm-ups and for the potential overtime though. My go-to seats are always upper lower bowl, or lower upper bowl at or around center ice, so 108-110 or 121-123. It's all about personal preference though.

"Expecting to have the decision this week" according to Athanasiou's agent, Darren Ferris. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/08/andreas_athanasiou_red_wings_t.html#incart_river_index

This team is in cap hell and will continue to be for the next few seasons, unless we start trading away some of the bad contracts. It has to happen. Unfortunately, it's going to take Holland moving on / getting fired for it to happen. If you could trade any three players (bad contracts), who would they be? Henrik Zetterberg - 4 years at $6,083,333 Tomas Tatar - 4 years at $5,300,000 Frans Nielsen - 5 years at $5,250,000 Gustav Nyquist - 2 years at $4,750,000 Justin Abdelkader - 6 years at $4,250,000 Johan Franzen - 3 years at $3,954,545 Darren Helm - 4 years at $3,850,000 Luke Glendening - 4 years at $1,800,000 Danny DeKeyser - 5 years at $5,000,000 Niklas Kronwall - 2 years at $4,750,000 Jonathan Ericsson - 3 years at $4,250,000 Trevor Daley - 3 years at $3,166,667 Jimmy Howard - 2 years at $5,291,667 *Note: I don't think all of these are bad contracts. I just listed all of the contracts people have complained about over the years. Zetterberg is still our best player. Tatar and Nyquist are solid top 6 forwards (despite what some here think) on decent contracts. Franzen will remain on LTIR, so there's no need to move him. I still love Helm and think he's very underrated around here. I also don't think his contract looks that bad once others are moved. Glendening is one of the worst contracts on the team, but at only $1.8M, I'd keep him over others. I still think DeKeyser can be a reliable middle pair defenseman, and is payed fairly for what he can bring to the team. I think (hope) last season (being relied upon as a top pair) was an aberration, not the norm. Kronwall is overpaid for the player he has become (due to playing on no knees), but with only two years remaining and the potential for LTIR, I'd keep him over others. I wasn't a fan of the Daley signing, and I still maintain that it was a bad contract for the state of this team, but a good contract otherwise. I still think Mrazek will have a bounce back season, but having Howard there for a safety net, certainly isn't the worst thing. And with only two years remaining, I don't really consider it a bad contract if he can stay relatively healthy. So the three I'd move would be Ericsson, Nielsen and Abdelkader. I'd move E first and foremost because I just think he's severely overpaid for what he brings to the team. I still think he's a decent bottom pair defenseman, and can even play a game or two on the 2nd pair without looking too out of place, but we have an abundance of defensemen that can provide the same for much less. Nielsen would be next to go for me. I know this would be a little risky, with our lack of depth at center, but I just don't see him keeping up the level of play for the duration of that contract. Hopefully two of Larkin, Athanasiou or Rasmussen can take over the top two spots after Zetterberg. My third trade candidate would be Abdelkader, for the simple fact that with his style of play, I don't see him being able to keep up any sort of production beyond the next couple seasons. In an ideal world, I'd trade Ericsson this offseason, Nielsen next offseason, and Abdelkader the following offseason. So who would you trade and why?

Well since Nyquist / Tatar aren't at all similar to former Red Wings Pulkkinen / Jurco, that question makes no sense. How many Larkin/Athanasiou/Cleary/Andersson type guys can a team play in the 12 man roster (beer league roster?) to be successful?

Yes, we should re-sign Nyquist when his contract is up, unless he's traded for help on the back end. I don't know how many times I have to explain why I'd move a bad contract. We wouldn't retain $3M of Ericsson's contract. The most we could retain is $2.125M (50%), and I don't even think that much would be necessary. We wouldn't be replacing him on the roster because we have 8 defensemen on the roster. Trading Ericsson would free up cap space and free up a roster spot for a younger player. Keep saying that Nyquist isn't good, or he sucks, or he's a bottom 6 winger, it's not going to make it true. As kickazz and I have proven with stats, he's a very good top 6 winger. Where are the stats that say he's a bottom 6 winger?

I disagree, but which players are "untradeable" to you? Again, if David Clarkson ($5.25M with 5 years remaining) can get traded, what makes Jonathan Ericsson ($4.25M (less if we retain salary) with 3 years remaining) untradeable? Or any player on this roster for that matter. There are always deals that can be made, Holland is just incapable of making them... Yes, I would send a team our 3rd (maybe not 2nd) for their 4th to get rid of Ericsson in a heartbeat. But like I pointed out with the Polak trade, it probably wouldn't take that much if we were willing to retain salary.

Ok, so Ouellet and Sproul replace Kronwall and Ericsson in the lineup and Russo replaces Ouellet / Sproul on the roster. Who gives a s***? Just another opportunity for you to have a meaningless argument... Russo is an RFA and we don't know how much he will be making next season, but you want to discuss his cap hit (which he doesn't even have) to replace a player on the roster... I was talking about Tavares today, because we know what he is today. You're talking about what he will be and the contract he will sign a year from now, which is fine, except you're just guessing. Tavares could sign the contract you mention with a team with very good scoring wingers, and elevate his game from a top 5 to top 3 center, from the age of 28-32. And AGAIN, I'm not even saying Tavares is where I'd spend the extra cap, I just think it's crazy for a rebuilding / retooling team to be in cap hell... We shouldn't give away assets? You're acting like I'm saying we should trade Svechnikov or a 1st / 2nd round pick to get rid of a bad contract. I'm saying we should look to trade a mid-low level player / prospect or a late round draft pick. That, to me is well worth getting rid of a bad contract and gaining cap space. You disagree? Cool.

We have no need for complimentary pieces? And why is that? Athanasiou has shown flashes of elite level play (don't mistake this as me saying he's elite). So why so quick to give up on him? Because his agent is trying to use the KHL as leverage to get a deal done? AA isn't going anywhere. Holland just needs to smarten the f*** up and work out something to get him signed. So with that logic, we should keep Zetterberg, Nielsen, (Mantha?), (Larkin?), Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, Kronwall and Daley, and get rid of everyone else?

$2.75M isn't much for a bottom pair defenseman, and even rebuilding teams need veteran leadership. The Leafs who were / are a rebuilding team, acquired Roman Polak (who is a somewhat similar player, making similar money), for Gunnarsson and a 4th round pick. I believe that there are teams that would have interest in a defenseman like Ericsson. He's not nearly as bad as some (most) Wings fans try to make him out to be. Way better options at better prices? Like who?

Again, Nyquist is a legit top 6 (borderline top line) winger. Why do you only count goals? Why not points? Because it fuels your argument that Nyquist is a bottom 6 winger. He's not, and only you and LeftWinger would put in such a ridiculous claim. It's so crazy that people continue to spew the same old s*** about Ericsson and whoever else being untradeable. There are no untradeable players. It doesn't exist.

It's not a completely different argument at all. If Kronwall and Ericsson are out of the lineup, who replaces them? The next two on the depth chart, Ouellet and Sproul. Why would Russo and Lashoff jump over two of them? They wouldn't. Lashoff is a career AHLer and Russo would take the spot of 7th defenseman. Not even touching your Tavares argument. If you don't think a top 5, point per game, 26 year old center doesn't help this team, not sure who you think would... What's wrong with a team in a rebuild / retool not spending to the cap? I'd be okay with shedding cap space and holding onto it for our own RFA's and / or for when the right deal came along, be that Tavares or someone else.

Why would anyone have "old Wings standards" with this team?

Yup, Ouellet and Sproul are on the team as healthy scratches... Daley, Green, DeKeyser, Jensen, Kronwall and Ericsson will all dress when healthy. Yeah, adding Tavares would totally make us the new Islanders. Tavares is clearly what's wrong with that team...

You're right. My bad. I pretty much agree with this. The point wasn't really that they're all good players with high upside though. It was more that Ouellet, Sproul and Coreau (as backup), is better than Kronwall, Ericsson and Howard, in addition to having the extra $12M in cap space. I do know this. And I'm with the Red Wings in thinking Ericsson is not "bad", I just think the contract is bad. My question is, do the Red Wings think the contract is bad? If so, they should move it. If not, they're wrong...

I've seen this quite a bit lately, and I don't really get it. Of course it wasn't bad when it was signed. Very few contracts are bad as soon as they are signed, even if some fans feel they are. However, when they do turn out to be bad contracts, that's when a good GM is able to trade them. He may have to retain some salary or give up a little in the way of draft picks, to get rid of it, but that's the cost of trading such contracts. There are always teams out there willing to take on (partial) bad contract to gain future assets. Ericsson's contract wasn't that bad when he signed it, but the problem is, either Holland still doesn't think it's bad, or he's just not actively trying to trade it. He should be, and if he were, I'm sure some team would be interested.

Why do you always go polar opposite when arguing an (over)hyped player? No, Athanasiou won't ever be a generational talent, and it's crazy to think he could be, but to say he isn't an important piece to this team, is just as crazy in my opinion. He will likely develop into a solid top 6 winger, and those are very valuable. Kessel was an easy sell, but Phaneuf was not a player teams were calling for. The Leafs were trying to get rid of him, and they managed to dump him on the Sens. People complain about DeKeyser, but I'd take him at $5M for another 5 seasons over Phaneuf at $7m for another 4 seasons. The Leafs also traded David f***ing Clarkson, and people say that we have s***ty players on untradeable contracts... I just want to point out that I'm not saying we should tank. I've argued several times in the past that tanking is a terrible strategy since the lottery was implemented. My point is that the Leafs and Oilers being bad for a long time isn't the reason they're now on the upswing, it's because they landed that number one overall, generational type talent. If the Leafs didn't land Matthews, they probably would have finished last season toward the bottom of the standings once again. Same with Edmonton landing McDavid. We can continue missing the playoffs for another 5 seasons, drafting 7-12 every year, and still be no further ahead. Or we can miss 1-2 more seasons, luck out in the draft lottery and land an elite player that immediately changes the fortune of this team. As the Flyers proved last season, you don't need to bottom out to have a chance at a generational talent (not saying Patrick is that). The rest I pretty much agree with.