krsmith17

Ericsson is a solid bottom pair defenseman, and if he can be had for a late round draft pick for around $2.75M (retaining $1.5M), there are teams (e.g. New Jersey, Buffalo) that would want him at that price. Or are you one of those that believes that trades are hard....

Ummm what? You think all of Mrazek, Nyquist, Tatar, Green, Athanasiou, Sheahan, Sproul, Jensen and Ouellet suck??? What's wrong with wanting to trade Ericsson and Nielsen?...

Again, I'm well aware of how long these teams sucked, but they did sell off players in what I would assume was an attempt to suck even more for the McDavid / Matthews drafts. Yeah, you can say Edmonton got lucky with the McDavid sweepstakes, but they also kind of got unlucky with some of their previous first overall picks. However, the Leafs didn't really get lucky, they did have the best odds to land Matthews, due to selling off players in an attempt to be bad and draft an elite player. I never said anything about wanting a full on rebuild, or that we should suck for years to stockpile draft picks. All I'm saying is, when a team is in a situation, much like we are, no longer considered a contender, they should consider trying to land the elite players of the draft. This year was weak with Hischier and Patrick, but next year there appears to be two elite players in Dahlin and Svechnikov. I'm not saying Toronto or Edmonton did, or we should go into the season with tank on our minds, but if halfway through the season, we're on the outside looking in, maybe we should start up the tank. I'm also not saying players should stop trying, but management should take it upon themselves, and trade off players for futures, which coincidentally makes their team worse now and potentially better in the future.

Yup, which is precisely what I said... "at some point" teams choose to suck. The Leafs chose to be all in on the suckage for the season before the Matthews / Laine draft. It worked quite well for them. Guaranteed there will be teams that will choose to suck this season for the Dahlin / Svechnikov draft. Will one of those teams be the Red Wings? Not with Holland in charge...

My point wasn't that I think any will be elite or even high end, it's that none of them are bad, and all of them have upside. I think there's a huge difference between riding the same old guys and giving the younger guys a shot. I'd rather go with Ouellet, Sproul and Mrazek over Kronwall, Ericsson and Howard, at a fraction of the price.

Ouellet, Sproul and Mrazek? You think they're all bad players with no upside? I disagree.

That comment was completely tongue in cheek. I don't actually think a GM should get a bonus based on making a trade... But anyway, by "meaningful" I meant a trade that either offloads a bad contract, or brings in a young talented player that would fill a need. Not a deadline trade involving a player for a pick, or a trade involving a fringe NHL player and a condition 7th...

What should his bonus be if he makes a meaningful trade?

To an extent I guess. But at some point, teams do usually plan to rebuild (suck). I think Toronto planned to suck, which looks to be panning out quite well for them. It's yet to be determined whether or not that plan will result in a Cup (I hope not...)I think the key is to plan to suck in the right year. Edmonton bottomed out for several years, but it wasn't until they landed McDavid (a true generational talent) that they were finally able to start to turn things around. The Leafs were fortunate that they landed Matthews (who also looks to be an elite talent) early in their suckage...

No, "good" penalty killers aren't rare commodities. They're a dime a dozen. However, Helm is one of the best penalty killers in the league, and that is somewhat of a rarity. What's your point though? It's not like I'm saying we shouldn't trade him. In fact, I'm saying the opposite. He's a player we should probably look into trading since he's one of the few we could trade that actually has some value around the league.

Which young players are you referring to that are "bad with little to no upside"?

Nyquist is not overrated. If anything I would say he is severely underrated around here. Case and point, once again having to defend him to those saying we should get rid of him... If you think any player can come in and replace Nyquist immediately, you're kidding yourself. Svechnikov is the only player in the system that has the potential to replace what Nyquist produces, and he is a couple years away from reaching that sort of production. If / when Svech does get there, he will get paid as much or more than Nyquist is right now. Nyquist is getting paid very fairly for his production. Why is there still this huge misconception that players should be putting up the same points as they were in the '80's-90's? I'm not sure if you've bothered to do any research in the past 10 years, or even bothered to look at point totals, but 40-50 points absolutely is top six production. Here's a good read for those that are confused about what the average player (by line) should be producing. -> https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/analysis/2015/5/31/8693313/first-line-nhl-production-analysis The article is a couple years old, but there haven't been any drastic changes in the past couple seasons in regards to average point totals. Nyquist also ranked 98th among all forwards, and 47th among all wingers last season. Both numbers indicate that not only is he producing at a top six level, but a borderline 1st line level. His HERO chart also indicates that he has produced at a top six level...

Good catch. Nonetheless, we'd be much younger if we swapped out two or three of the players I mentioned previously.

We're also the second oldest team with an average age of 29.269. Imagine how different all three of those numbers would look if we replaced Kronwall, Ericsson and Howard with Ouellet, Sproul and Coreau. We would probably be a slightly worse team (not much), which would be a good thing anyway. We also wouldn't have those veterans for Blashill to needlessly lean on, and it would give the kids more of an opportunity to sink or swim...

Okay, okay, I get your point. No need to triple post... But yeah, I get what you were saying now, and I agree. I'd do that trade, but maybe have lottery protection on the first round pick, and retain some of Ericsson's cap hit. I'm not sure if Winnipeg would have much interest though unfortunately. I'd start looking at lesser established defensemen. We wouldn't have to give up near as much, but of course, there's always the risk of them not panning out. I remember leading up to the '15 draft, I wanted to trade up for Werenski, and then the following season I wanted to put in an offer to Columbus for him. Oh, what could have been... Then leading up to the '16 draft, I wanted to trade up for Bean, and now want to put in an offer to Carolina for him. Do it Kenny!...

I can understand wanting to trade Helm, since he's one of the few guys that would actually garner any sort of return. His production is replaceable, but I don't think there are many penalty killers in the league much, if at all better than him in that aspect of the game. But again, if we can get a decent return, I'd be open to moving him. I understand wanting to trade Green as well. He's our biggest trading chip come trade deadline. However, I'd be open to re-signing him this offseason (after trading him at the deadline) depending on what moves, if any, are made to our defense before then. I can not, will not understand why so many people want to trade Nyquist though. It make no sense. He's a very good secondary scorer, on a good contract. Of all the bad contracts on the team, why would that be one you would want to move?

Hey @LeftWinger, remember that time you made a joke referencing players returning to 2008 form?... I wasn't a fan of the Rasmussen pick either, but to call it a bust or screw up this early is a bit premature, don't ya think? Regardless, we should have taken Vilardi, not Tippett. I think Vilardi would have been the safest pick, as well as the highest ceiling. Both Rasmussen and Tippett could boom or bust. I'll agree that Tippett may have the higher chance of booming, but the potential he busts is still there.

A lot can change in 2-3 years to a person's health, even the regular Joe, but even more so to a professional athlete. There's no way the league would say to doctors, "well he was healthy back then, what changed?" It may come with scrutiny, but look at Hossa. If he can develop an allergy to his equipment, I'm sure Z can find something to warrant LTIR. I'm sure the NHL investigates every LTIR case, so there's no difference there. I'm not too worried. Yeah, let's just hope our best player and captain up and retires so we can sign Athanasiou... Surely there isn't any better way to get under the cap...

I really don't see how trading a mid tier player / prospect / pick hurts the rebuild. Of course, it would be great if we weren't forced to do it, but Holland put himself in this situation by signing the bad contracts. He's either going to have to dig himself out, or (hopefully) someone else will...

They're considered bad contracts for a reason. Most teams wouldn't have much interest in a few of them, unless you entice them with a pick / prospect / retained salary. But it's not like a team would be expecting a Mantha, Cholowski, or first round pick to take on a bad contract. A Sheahan, Saarijarvi, or 3rd round pick would likely be enough to get a deal done with most of the guys mentioned above. That would be more than worth it to free up some cap space and roster spot.

Zetterberg has been a warrior these past few seasons and has barely missed any time to injury. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that because he is fully healthy today, he will be two years from now. It's very possibly that his back could flare up again at some point. I'm not really sure what you mean by the doctors saying "no he can't play anymore, we take it back". What would they be taking back? Just because they cleared him to play 3 1/2 years ago, doesn't mean they cleared him to play out the entirety of his contract. I don't think anyone is suggesting the doctors would make something up, although I think they could, but rather that in two years time, at the age of 38, it's possible he could have an issue with his back again or some other unrelated injury by that time.

I'm more so looking forward to see how individuals perform this season rather than the team as a whole. I'd just like to see a clear direction with management and better systems and player usage from coaching. I think on paper we should be a slightly better team, which isn't necessarily a good thing. I'd like to see us trade off a couple bad contracts, give the kids ample playing time, finish around where we did last season, and get lucky in the draft lottery with a top 3 pick.

Why would we want to trade a young player? Or did you mean trade for a young player? I just hope this cluster f*** Holland has created doesn't force him to trade low on a player, especially if it's a young player like Athanasiou. If we can trade him in a package for a young, potential top pair defenseman, I'd be all for it, but if we dump him for a pick, I'd be pissed...

This would obviously be the best for both sides, as I'm sure Zetterberg wouldn't want to screw over the team he captained for 6 seasons. I don't see LTIR being an issue in the next two seasons for a player with previous back issues. Even if he told Gary Bettman himself that he wasn't likely to finish out his contract, or that they signed such a long contract to "fool the system" (every team was doing it, which is why the cap recapture penalty was implemented). They wouldn't be able to force him to play, nor would they be able to prove his back is fit enough to go to work every day. But yeah, if it did come down to it and for whatever reason we couldn't place him on LTIR, the buyout would obviously be the best solution. 1/3 of a $M for 4 seasons is nothing in the grand scheme of things. I think he'll hit 1000 points in the next two seasons. 55-60 this season and 40-45 the following season.

Yeah, you'd hope he would be forced to trade a player like Ericsson, but we know that isn't going to happen. I'd be pissed if all we got was a 2nd round pick for Athanasiou. Holland really has f***ed this team, and it's just further proof that the Daley signing (among others) were terrible moves for a team up against the cap...