krsmith17

I'm not covering anything up. I never once said anything about this being a good signing for this team. You said Sproul isn't an offensive defenseman, now you're back peddling, saying that he hasn't proven he can be at the NHL level yet. Well no s***, he's played 28 f***ing games. Not every defenseman jumps in and immediately lights the league on fire. I did praise Smith for his offensive potential. It didn't materialize in the NHL like I thought it would. What's your point? Is it that difficult for you to fathom that players do get mishandled and never recover from it? Happens all the time in professional sport. Like I said, I'm not saying for certain that happened to Jurco, just like you can't say it didn't. Why does it bother you so much if I do think Sproul is / will be mishandled? I think a number of our players have been over the years. Some can overcome it. Some can't. I hope Sproul can. Newsflash. We won't be contenders for the next 3 years (aka duration of Daley's contract).

Was just about to post that. Good on him for leaving money on the table. With the lower cap hit, it slightly increases his chance of winning a Stanley Cup in that time.

So you're saying that adding a defenseman to a roster that already consisted of 7 defensemen, doesn't in any way effect any of the defensemen on the lower end of the totem pole? We can't develop him in the minors, so where do you suggest we develop him? Unless you're assuming there will be injuries, which I guess is a fair assumption, but certainly no guarantee. Maybe (hopefully) Holland knows something regarding the health of Kronwall / Ericsson...

If Sproul was traded it wouldn't bother me a bit, just like it didn't when Jurco was traded. So don't give me that "pet prospect" bulls***. You can say all you want that I'm "creating a false dilemma", but my opinion is that if we're trying to build for the future, we shouldn't have signed more veterans. Signing more players, whether it was Daley or some other vet, does take a spot from one of the kids, directly or indirectly. That is a fact, unless of course Holland makes a trade (not going to happen), or Blashill scratches Ericsson or Kronwall (not going to happen). I'd prefer to develop Sproul into a top 4, power-play quarterback, that can be a part of our future, than sign any vet that won't be part of the future. Again, my opinion. I'm going to cheer just as loudly as the next guy for Daley while he wears the Winged Wheel, but it's just not a signing I would have made. Why does that bother you so much?

Can you say definitively that Jurco was given a fair shot? No, just like I can't say definitively that he wasn't. It's all conjecture. I do believe he was mishandled. Whether you agree with that or not means absolutely nothing to me. But for whatever reason, it bothers some people when someone says something they don't necessarily agree with, even if it is just an opinion. I think Sproul needs a solid stretch of games once he's healthy, to get into a rhythm and gain some confidence. If he's given as much rope as a guy like Ericsson has been given in regards to turnovers and poor play, and he still looks out of place, then scratch him. He's an RFA at the end of this season. If he doesn't impress by then, let him walk. Simple as that. No one is saying that Sproul will be a good offensive defenseman at the NHL level. All we're saying is, at this point in his career, he has always been known for his offensive ability, which gave him the label of "offensive defenseman". A 28 game stretch is not going to change that one way or another. He's still a defenseman that would like to play an offensive style game, he just hasn't been able to do it at the highest level yet. Maybe he never will.

Yeah, I agree. I do still hope we can move one of Tatar or Nyquist in a package for an upgrade on the back end, but I highly doubt that ever happens...

Holland makes trades literally every single year... Just nothing that makes any significant improvements to the team. #DidHollandMakeATradeToBringInATop2Defenseman...

I read the same thing, and I'm really surprised he didn't start higher. Would have thought $5.5-6M would be his starting point. If he's starting at $5M, we could potentially get him at $4.5M, although I'm not sure if he'd be willing to sign for much less than Nyquist. Like I said a few days ago, I expect he'll get somewhere in the $4.75-5M range for 4-5 years.

Good thing you made that part clear... But yeah, I totally agree. Daley is still a very good defenseman, but not the direction I would have gone. Let's just hope it all works out. I'm not going to wish injury on anyone, but it wouldn't be the worst thing if one of Kronwall / Ericsson miss some time...

Never once said the signing was great for the team... Yeah, kind of the way you're stating Sproul not being an offensive defenseman as fact. Also, regarding Smith and Jurco. I always said Smith will develop into a top 4 defenseman. He has. Fact. I stand by the fact that I believe Jurco was mishandled in Detroit. Maybe he'd be a different player today if his development was handled differently. Maybe not. At this point, I could care less. I never once stated any of those opinions as fact, but whatever. Hey kickazz, grass is green.

This. Quite possibly the dumbest conversation I've ever been a part of on here... But you're right kickazz. Hell, you're never wrong. Sproul isn't an offensive defenseman. Not sure what he is, but definitely not an offensive defenseman...

The key to that first post you quoted was "for this team". The cap hit and term is great, making it a great contract. Not a good contract for this team to sign where we sit right now though in my opinion. The conversation keeps going around in circles because some don't like differing opinions and try their hardest to change them. Some people think it's a great signing for this team, and they may be right, but I disagree. Difference is, I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion on the signing.

Re: "...first 28 NHL games, therefore he is no longer an offensive defenseman... Got it..." Zetterberg evolved into more of a two-way forward. He didn't just all of a sudden forget how to score. He developed his game to be more of a two-way forward. So if Sproul isn't an offensive defenseman, what is he? http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/player/9068 Assets: Excels on offense, but also has very good size and some physicality to his game. Can quarterback a power play and put up very good scoring numbers. Career Potential: Big offensive defenseman with a little upside. http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/ryan_sproul/ Talent Analysis: Sproul boasts tremendous offensive instincts, can quarterback a power play, and no longer is knocked for his skating ability or defensive skills. He has shown vast improvement since being drafted. His defensive game is still developing and he continues to refine the secondary areas of his game. Future: Sproul continued to hone his overall game in the AHL in 2015-16, spending his third pro season with the Grand Rapids Griffins. A durable defenseman with some offensive ability and prototypical size, he is still working to become more consistent in his positional game. Long-term, Sproul is an intriguing prospect with top-four NHL potential.

Who does this? I sure as hell don't. Pretty much everything I write here is "my opinion" and I state it exactly as that. You disagree with some of my opinions, and try to state YOUR opinion as fact. Daley is a good defenseman that should help out our team now, just not sure it's the best signing for our team in the future. Anyway, I'm done with this discussion.

Awesome analogy dude... Problem is, Sproul has never given himself the title of offensive defenseman, let alone... superman... You know how he got labeled as an offensive defenseman? By playing like an offensive defenseman, you know, jumping into the rush, providing offense, and putting up points. He hasn't been able to do that quite as much as we'd like in his first 28 NHL games, therefore he is no longer an offensive defenseman... Got it...

Why bother discuss the Red Wings? Our opinions mean nothing. Shut down the board...

There's not a doubt in my mind that Ken Holland knows more about managing a hockey team than myself or anyone else here. That doesn't mean he doesn't make mistakes, some so obvious, even to mere mortals... I'm not even saying that the Daley signing is one of those. I said several times it's a great signing, just not one that we should have made in our position (my opinion). That's me saying I don't think it was the right decision and being critical of that decision. Some here don't like that though. "Don't ever question the Holland"... "You're just a fan"... "You don't know s***"... I'm not saying we should not make the playoffs, I'm saying that should not be the number one priority for this season (and maybe not the next). The priority should be building this team back into a Cup contender, instead of a playoff contender. Playing young guys instead of signing stop-gap vets, doesn't take too much away from this year, and could potentially make us much better in future years. Again, my opinion. No one is really saying that Rasmussen sucks or will never become an NHL player. What people are saying is that there were better players still on the board at 9. Those same people that evaluate hockey prospects for a living, that had him ranked in the top half of the draft, also had him behind Vilardi and Tippett. I think it was the wrong selection, only time will tell. Regardless, he is a Red Wing now, and I'll be rooting him on every step of the way, hoping he becomes a legit number one center in the mold of a Getzlaf.

How well (or poorly) a player plays doesn't determine his style of play. There are offensive defensemen, defensive defensemen, and two-way defensemen. Sproul IS an offensive defensemen. Whether he ever hacks it as an NHLer or not doesn't change that. I'm okay with him not getting every game, the only thing I ask is he's given a fair shot. Don't bench him for one giveaway (he's going to make mistakes), and don't scratch him for weeks at a time for one off game (especially when other guys don't get the same treatment). If he's given a fair crack at it, and he doesn't pan out, whatever, let him walk at the end of the season.

I wouldn't say people are in denial. No one is saying that we ARE rebuilding, just that we SHOULD be rebuilding. Everyone should know though that because these guys are professionals (GM's, coaches, scouts) they never make mistakes. I mean who are we to question anything they ever do? Shut down the board folks, stop expressing your opinions, because Ken Holland is always right. We should never disagree with the way he manages this team. Rasmussen, awesome selection. Daley, awesome signing. We don't need to make trades to upgrade this team. We should keep signing vets because the young guys aren't good enough. Keep trying to squeak into the playoffs because anything can happen. In Holland we trust...

This makes no sense. Sproul has been an offensive defenseman his entire career. Just because he hasn't put up the numbers yet in his 28 NHL games, doesn't negate that. I think Sproul has the potential to be a 30+ point defenseman. Maybe he gets there, maybe he doesn't. But he needs to be given the opportunity. He's not going to get that opportunity from the bench. Maybe Ouellet was slightly better than Sproul last year, but Sproul was also in and out of the lineup more than anyone. If given the opportunity, I think he would run with it. Hopefully the torn ACL doesn't effect his game too much, and he can get in some consistent games. Sproul's upside far outweighs Ouellet's in my opinion.

Opinion. Mine is that Sproul is better. Yours is that Ouellet is better. I prefer offensive defensemen that can skate and shoot the puck. That is Sproul. I'm guessing you prefer more defensively sound defensemen. That is Ouellet. Sproul has put up better points at every level, including the NHL. Ouellet lacks foot speed, and doesn't have a great shot. I'm not saying he sucks, just that I'd prefer Sproul.

Well I didn't say Sproul was better. I said that Ouellet isn't better, replying to puckbags that said Ouellet was "much better". Sproul IS better though in my opinion. He was much better in junior, he was better in the AHL, and he's been better in limited time in the NHL. Sproul is a much better skater, much better shot, and is better offensively. Ouellet may be a little better defensively, but that's the only edge I'd give him. I take the smooth skating, bomb of a shot, offensive defenseman over the defensive defenseman any day.

Sproul is not waiver exempt, and Ouellet is not better than Sproul.

Great deal for the right team. I don't think we're the right team. Agree to disagree. I don't doubt Daley's ability, and I'm sure as long as he can stay healthy, he will be a solid defenseman. My issue is if he invertently takes a spot from one of Ouellet or Sproul. But whatever, it is what it is...

So you do think one player can move the needle that much. In this case, I disagree. Since you brought up betting, according to Vegas, this team has an 80/1 (1.23%) chance to win the 2018 Stanley Cup as the team sits right now. Do you like those odds? Would you bet on those odds? Or would you rather do something to improve those odds before throwing all your chips in? Never mentioned a thing about tanking. I'm completely against actively tanking from the start of a season. What I am in favour of though is going through a proper rebuild. It is extremely difficult to retool on the fly without striking gold in the draft, landing a stud in the later rounds. I'm not convinced we have one of those this time around. Therefore, we should continue with the youth movement, get another top 10 pick or two, and make a couple trades to benefit the team now and in the future. Bringing in a veteran like Daley makes no sense to me, unless Kronwall or Ericsson weren't ready to go, which it appears they are now. Not a great signing for this team in my opinion.