krsmith17

Let's just pretend any of this is remotely possible (it's not), there isn't a GM in the league that would make that many massive changes to a team that is (on paper) pretty good, and has won 4 straight against some pretty good teams. Why make so many trades to make your team arguably worse? At best these are lateral moves giving up a ton of offense and depth to solidify the back end... That Trouba trade that you keep bringing up has to be one of the worst trade proposals I've seen. We're giving up TWO 50 point wingers and a 15-20 point defenseman for a defenseman who as of yet, hasn't hit 30 points. This coming from one of the biggest proponents out there for Trouba. I don't think it's out of the question that he could become a 40-50 point defenseman, but he could also tap out at 30 points. That would be a massive over payment for that sort of production. Not to mention the fact that Winnipeg are already loaded up front. Why would they want two more wingers? They're also an internal cap team, and you think they're going to take on over $10M in salary, with two of the three looking for raises after this season?... There's just so much wrong with that trade from every perspective.. I'm not as high as some on Fowler. I would trade for him, but I wouldn't use our first on him. I'd consider Ouellet and a 2nd or 3rd, but that's about as high as I would go... I have zero interest in trading for Shattenkirk, who by all accounts wants to test free agency next offseason. The 8 skater, 1 goalie option is there but I'd be shocked if any teams use this as you'd be protecting two less players. You can be guaranteed most (if not all) teams and definitely Holland will be going with the 7 forwards, 3 defensemen, 1 goalie option. So bringing in any more than one defenseman wouldn't be a smart move in my opinion. I honestly don't think we're going to make any moves, and I'm okay with standing pat for now. I'd do a Smith or Ouellet plus a pick or prospect for Trouba trade, but that'd be about it for me...

I wasn't able to catch last nights game as I was at a wedding (just finished watching PVR'd Wings game). I seen they won 3-2, how did they look? Big night for Bert. Did Mantha play a good game despite not figuring in the scoring?

I agree that it is much better to have Mantha playing top minutes in Grand Rapids then having him play on the 4th line in Detroit with Glendening and Miller / Ott. But that shouldn't have to be the only two options... There's no reason Sheahan couldn't drop down for Mantha, if Blashill weren't so insistent that he's a top 6 player... Anyway, I'm not going to worry about it too much because it's really only a matter of time before he gets the call. I'd also say that the chance of Mantha's game translating to the NHL is much more likely than just about any prospect we've seen in a long, long time. We've already seen glimpses of what he'll become, and with the extra weight (20 lbs.) he added over the summer, he's even stronger and quicker than last season. I think worst case scenario, Mantha becomes a 2nd / 3rd line 20 goal / 40 point player, best case scenario, he becomes a top line 40 goal / 80 point player. And yes, I do think that ceiling is very attainable with his skill set.

Imagine if we had a top line of: Kreider - Larkin - Tarasenko ...... I love the optimism of some hoping to land 2 or 3 of these top defensemen available... It's a long shot that we get even one, zero chance we get 2 or 3...

While I agree that he didn't look good, I disagree on the reason he didn't look good.

What do you expect from a skilled player playing with Glendening and Miller? Seriously, those guys have zero offense in their game (yeah, yeah I know they each got a point last game...) There is maybe one young player in the entire league that would still look good with those two plugs, and that's Connor McDavid... everyone else would look mediocre at best... Eichel, Matthews, Larkin, etc. none of these guys would look good or produce in a 4th line role with Glendening and Miller...

I'd personally prefer he play 3rd line center with competent wingers than top 6 wing... I'm sure he'll continue to work on it in practice. I just hope this is a very temporary thing...

Why? I think we have a better shot at getting Trouba then Fowler... Anaheim don't want any salary back in a trade, and we can't trade for a player unless equal salary is going the other way... Sure, we could make two separate trades, but I still say the likelihood of trading for Trouba is much higher than Holland making TWO big trades...

Also, moving Larkin back to wing... Just keeps getting better... Sheahan on top line... Tatar - Zetterberg - Sheahan Abdelkader - Nielsen - Larkin Nyquist - Helm - Vanek Ott - Glendening - Miller DeKeyser - Green Smith - Sproul Ericsson - Marchenko

You got your wish Lefty... Ott in, Athanasiou out... Also, Sproul is in, like mentioned in another thread... EDIT: Ouellet is out for Sproul... Xavier plays his best game I've seen him play, was in my opinion our only decent defenseman last game, and he gets scratched... Awesome Blash...

NVM

I think the most interesting part about that is that the Vancouver Canucks are 4-0... I still expect them to finish towards the bottom of the league this year... Side note: We should have another "Around the League" thread devoted to this sort of stuff.

I know I'm definitely in the minority here, but if it came down to it and we had to give up one of Mantha or Athanasiou in a trade for a high end defenseman like Trouba, I'd trade Athanasiou. I know centers have more value than wingers, but I think Mantha has the higher ceiling. I see AA becoming a 2nd / 3rd line center (possibly even winger), and Mantha becoming a 1st / 2nd line winger. Of course, I'd much rather trade Nyquist or Tatar plus, but unfortunately that probably won't get it done...

I don't think Mantha has been an enigma at all... I think he has taken a natural path of progression, it's just that some fans had way too high expectations on the kid coming out of junior. He broke his leg two years ago, which naturally caused him to have somewhat of a down year. Last year he showed steady improvement, and he's off to an amazing start to this season... Mantha will be a very good NHL player, it just depends on when and with what team... Hopefully soon and with the Red Wings. He's exactly the type of player this team needs in their lineup.

Trouba has wanted out of Winnipeg for quite a while now, and this situation is just making it worse. If they make him sit out an entire season without trading him, would he become a UFA after this season? Or would he still be an RFA? I agree with kliq that Cheveldayoff should be playing hard ball, or he could find himself in this situation again and again. But at what point should he be willing to accept a lesser deal? I mean, they haven't exactly been playing great hockey to start the season. They're sitting on a very good asset that obviously doesn't want to play for them, when they could get a pretty nice return to help the team now and in the future... I bet he eventually cracks leading up to the December 1st deadline, when there's a little more pressure to get something worked out... I have been VERY impressed (surprised) with Ouellet so far this season, and he has been our best defenseman for stretches in these 4 games. He was far and away our best defenseman last night, and the argument could be made about all 4 games... Maybe, just maybe he becomes an intriguing piece for Winnipeg. He's around the same age as Trouba (7 months older), left-handed shot, potential top 4, which is exactly what they're looking for... Obviously more would have to be added to make it work, but maybe Nyquist / Tatar, Ouellet and a pick could be enough leading up to deadline a little over a month away...

Yeah, the defensive forwards were certainly leaned on, with Glendening and Miller on the ice for 14:46 and 16:08 respectively. But don't kid yourself into thinking that was necessarily a good thing. Once again they were hemmed in their zone for virtually the entire time they were on the ice, other than that amazing game winning goal... In a game that seen most lines struggle, once again our 4th line was our worst in regards to possession. Glendening, Miller and Athanasiou were 23.8, 20, 20 corsi percentages... That's awful. Of course, they did score that key goal and were our only three forwards that finished with a plus rating, so there's that...

Mantha who?

Ouellet looking really good. As much as I want to see Sproul get in a game, Ouellet shouldn't be the man coming out.

I agree, and I don't see my lineup as a realistic expectation with Holland and Blashill in charge, however I think that's a problem. We have the talent to ice a competitive lineup every night, the issue isn't talent, it's "the way this team is run"... Guys that can only play defensive hockey, kill penalties and block shots that provide zero offense are a dying breed in this league. I just wish they would become extinct in Detroit sooner rather than later...

I'll agree that you shouldn't shuffle a line that is clicking so well early on, but you wouldn't even have to if you wanted 4 fairly even lines. But let's say we did take Helm off that line and put Athanasiou in there, does that line get worse? Maybe, maybe no. Helm has played great early on, so "demoting" him would suck, but in my opinion it's Nyquist and Vanek that have had the crazy chemistry. Helm has helped, but I don't think putting Larkin or Athanasiou there changes much. I also agree that it's nice to see the minutes being somewhat evenly distributed, and I like having players only on one specialty teams unit as well. I'd even remove Nielsen from the PK unit. You need 10 players to fill 2 power-play units and 8 players to fill 2 penalty-kill units. Coincidently that equals the 18 skaters that dress every night... My ideal lineup would be something like this... Zetterberg - Larkin - Tatar Abdelkader - Nielsen - Mantha Vanek - Athanasiou - Nyquist Sheahan - Helm - Glendening Power-Play units Abdelkader (net front) Larkin - Zetterberg - Tatar Green Nyquist - Nielsen - Mantha Vanek - Smith Penalty-Kill units Helm - Sheahan DeKeyser - Ouellet Glendening - Athanasiou Ericsson - Marchenko

I don't think anyone is really comparing Miller / Glendening / Ott to Mantha / Athanasiou, but both should be in the lineup over the two scrubs. An ideal lineup would include a 4th line of Sheahan - Glendening - Helm and both Athanasiou and Mantha in the top 9. So no, they're not directly taking their spots in the lineup but indirectlty, they are... I hate the mentality that we need a grinding 4th line. Mantha absolutely could play on a 4th line, he just shouldn't play on "our 4th line" with Glendening and Miller or Ott... If we wanted to role 4 balanced lines, with Athanasiou - Helm - Mantha as our 4th, I'd be completely okay with that. Of course though, we know that would never happen with Holland and Blashill running this ship...

Pulkkinen scored his first as a MInnesota Wild last night.

Ducks are off too a rough start eh? 7 goals in 4 games... Struggling offensively, sitting with 8 defensemen, and arguably their best still unsigned... Maybe they should trade one of their defensemen for a top 6 winger...

I missed the first game last Friday (caught the highlights), but watched the games Saturday night and last night and the Griffins have looked really good. Mantha doesn't belong in the AHL, he'll be up soon enough. The goal in his first game as well as all three last night were all on the power-play, bombs from the point. I wouldn't want him on the point in Detroit, but I would love to see him on the right half boards, to be the sniper on that side of the ice. But of course he will be used as the net front because he's BIG... His goal in the second game was his only even strength goal, but showed off his speed and skill to beat the defender (who was at least 2-3 steps ahead of him) to a loose puck and go in on a breakaway and picked his corner. Very nice goal. He also had a 2-on-1 with Lorito in the second game where he made a perfect saucer pass over the sprawling defender, but Lorito rang it off the pipe. I've been very impressed with Mantha's overall game and the progress he's made, he looks dominant out there on most shifts and rarely loses puck battles. He still doesn't back-check as hard as he fore-checks but I'm okay with that, we need some more offensive minded players. F*** having every single player play defensive minded hockey... Aside from Mantha, the only other players that really stood out in both games were Callahan and Russo. I still think Callahan should be on the Wings over Miller / Ott. He brings all the same intangibles, relentless on the fore-check, plays with a bit of an edge, can kill penalties, but could also provide a bit of offense. Russo is definitely our best defender down there, he's a very good two-way defenseman. His offense is what usually gets him noticed but his defensive game is probably a little underrated. Svechnikov was all over the ice Saturday night, and had so many unbelievable opportunities, before finally burying one in the third period. I didn't really notice him much last night for whatever reason though. Same goes for Bertuzzi. Although Turgeon didn't get much ice time, I'm impressed with him every time he's on the ice. I don't think he'll ever be a great offensive player, but I'm thinking he could be another Sheahan type, defensive center with offensive upside. I really wasn't impressed with Sadowy in either game, hopefully it's just a matter of adjusting to the pros. I wasn't ever really high on Hicketts, mainly because of his size, but man does he ever continue to impress. He's very quick and deceptive, and his hockey IQ is off the charts. He made one massive hit behind his own net on a guy twice his size in the game Saturday night. He may actually have a shot in the NHL. I've been high on Coreau since last season, and he continued to impress in training camp and pre-season this year. He had a bit of a rough game last night, but still made some key saves. Great start to the season for the Griffs and I expect they'll keep rolling. Nice to see them get victories over two former long-time teammates Ferraro and Hoggan too.

Sending Howard to the minors does not save much in cap space though. The max buried salary on his contract would be $950,000, so you'd still be on the hook for over $4M. You then call up Coreau and you're adding $612,500, or in the King's case, activate Quick from LTIR and they're adding $5.8M...