krsmith17

For those that like to s*** on Cleary and / or Holland for keeping him around for so long, maybe you should read / listen to some of the interviews by Holland, Martin, or Cleary himself over the past week or so. It's very clear that he's doing a great job with the kids in Grand Rapids, in particular, Bertuzzi. I think Cleary may be a big factor in Bert's success thus far. Like him or not, Cleary is a stand up guy, with an unbelievable work ethic, and if that rubs off on any of the prospects, even a little bit, he's well worth yet another contract. The kids love and respect the guy, and rightfully so. Keep up the good work in GR Cleary, even if most of what you do down there is off the ice...

Svechnikov, Bertuzzi and Russo have been good in this tournament, but the two players I've been most impressed with are Hicketts and Turgeon. I've never been really high on Hicketts, mainly because of his size, but he may just have a future in the NHL if he keeps up his solid play. I'll be watching him very closely this year in Grand Rapids. I never really thought Turgeon would ever become anything more than a 4th line center, but the more I watch him, the more I think he might be another Sheahan type player. Middle six, defensively responsible, hard nosed center. Nastasiuk is also a lot faster than I thought he was and has a decent shot. Still don't expect him to be anything more than a bottom six winger. I haven't been overly impressed with Sadowy in any of the games...

Nastasiuk!

Championship game underway.

Exactly how I feel, Detroit # 1 Fan. I want so bad for Sproul to come into camp and earn himself a spot in the lineup. I still think he has the potential to become a top 4, power-play quarterback. Khan among others have reported that he will likely be signing a one year deal sometime this week.

Wings beat Blues 2-1 to advance to the finals tomorrow against the Canes. Goals by Hronek and Bertuzzi.

I'm still hoping Sproul comes into camp and steals a spot in the top 6, or very least number 7...

So Helm, a player you openly don't like, will be taking a spot / minutes from Athanasiou and Mantha, but Vanek, a player you like, won't? How convenient... I'd be shocked if Vanek sees significant top 6 minutes, unless one or two of Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin or Abdelkader are injured. Both Helm and Vanek will likely be on the 3rd line together. But yeah, one will be taking minutes from the kids, but the other won't... You're still spewing the same old s*** about Helm, and I'm sure you'll continue to do so, regardless of whether or not he ever "proves you wrong"...

You thinking I was attacking you or name calling by saying that some of your views are extremely foolish (definition of asinine) is one thing, but to not see how outlandish some (most) of your comments have been all offseason, is crazy to me... And like I said before, each comment seems to be worse than the previous. Relax man, October is right around the corner... By the way, I wasn't basing any of that on what you're saying in this thread alone, more so every single other thread over the summer...

"It's just my opinion... My mind won't change". That's right, don't let anyone ever change you, no matter how asinine your views may be...

Yes, Cleary did spend some time on IR last season and if he does get another deal and again plays in Grand Rapids, I would expect a similar number of games / production again. He's a great mentor for the kids and they all love him down there. I'd personally like to see him spend another season down there helping out the kids on and off the ice. So, no it's not because he was horrible. It's really pissing me off how much disdain some fans are getting over such a great guy, that gave this organization so much over the years. Sure, he stayed a year or two too long, but is that on him? No. LeftWinger, what's going on with you? I mean you're at least somewhat bearable during the season, but every offseason it's the same old s*** with you. Nothing but doom and gloom, every post is worse than the previous. Relax man, the season starts soon...

Game just starting against the Hawks.

Beautiful pass from Russo to Bertuzzi on the PP. 6-3.

Svech looking good. 5-3. Sadowy.

Svechnikov!

2-2... 3-2 Jackets... Paterson looks very rusty. 3-3. Borkowski with his second.

Wow 2-1 just like that...

Criscuolo from Bertuzzi.

If anyone's interested in watching any of the prospects tournament, the game between the Wings and Jackets is being streamed live on detroitredwings.com now. Ken Kal on the call.

Scoring is all that matters in hockey...

Scott Cullen of TSN projects our top scorers to be... League Rank - Player - GP - G - A - PTS 64 - Nyquist - 82 - 26 - 28 - 54 77 - Zetterberg - 72 - 15 - 38 - 53 80 - Larkin - 80 - 25 - 27 - 52 103 - Nielsen - 80 - 18 - 31 - 49 122 - Tatar - 79 - 22 - 24 - 46 146 - Vanek - 76 - 18 - 26 - 44 195 - Abdelkader - 76 - 17 - 21 - 38 200 - Green - 73 - 8 - 30 - 38 235 - Kronwall - 72 - 6 - 28 - 34 266 - Sheahan - 80 - 13 - 17 - 30

You say "big dollars", but Helm isn't getting paid big dollars, far from it in today's NHL... I'm not sure what people think market value is for the average 3rd line player, but I don't think what Helm is making is that far off. I think a fair breakdown for NHL forwards salaries is something along the lines of... 4th liner = $0.5-1.5M 3rd liner = $1.5-3.5M 2nd liner = $3.5-5.5M 1st liner = $5.5-7.5M elite = $7.5+ So yes, he may be slightly overpaid, but I just don't think it's worth all the b****ing and moaning people are doing...

So you agree that there is more to the game than scoring, just that players should only be rewarded (salary / term) if they put up big points? Players that do all the other little things shouldn't be rewarded for it?... You think for a player to get paid a lot, they should have the "stats" to back it up? And by stats I guess you just mean two stats, goals and points? Forget the hundreds of other stats that can aid in evaluating a players worth... "But I do think he's overpaid"... Why do people keep saying this over and over and over again? Who is arguing that? No one. Helm is slightly over paid, but losing him would have left a big hole, Holland knew that, so he was willing to give him a little more to keep him. Keeping Helm was smart, signing / re-signing some other players, not so much, but yet we will continue to hear about this for the duration of the contract...

I agree with you Dickie, I just don't see the point in constantly bringing up Helm's contract, or others for that matter. Helm is an important piece to this team whether people want to admit that or not. We all would have liked a cheaper, shorter contract, but it's not, and Helm will be valuable player for the next few years. This team is worse without Helm in the lineup, I can't say the same for Miller or Ott or even Vanek...

Saying that Helm is overpaid is one thing, and myself along with every single person here have said the same thing. He is overpaid in cap (about $1M too much) as well as in term (a year or two too long). However, to say that Helm (as a player, forget his contract) is "very replaceable" is flat out wrong. A player with his speed, tenacity, forechecking and penalty killing ability has a ton of value to any team, especially in the playoffs. Again, yes he is slightly overpaid, but as long as he remains in the bottom 6, he should prove to be very valuable to the Red Wings for the next 3+ years. Also, I don't see the NTC as anything of significance. It's not like Holland would trade him in the next few years, even if he does become replaceable... As for the few other teams that were willing to pay Helm even more, I'm sure there were, just like I'm sure close to every team in the league would love to have a Helm on their roster (again, looking at the player, not the contract).