krsmith17

In what world is 6'0", 200lbs. "too small" for the NHL? That's what both Helm and Callahan are and both can hold their own and hit like a ton of bricks. Helm is a great bottom 6 winger, and I still think Callahan still has the potential to be as well. I don't think we've completely written him off, but his time is getting cut short. I'll say if he doesn't make the team this year (he probably won't), he'll be done, either another team will give him a shot or he'll be a career minor leaguer...

Trouba also just turned 22. Give him a couple years and I think he will be a 40+ point, top pairing defenseman, that is also very good in his own end, unlike some of the other names being thrown around...

No one is over hyping Mantha. Every single person has said that he wasn't great, but he certainly was good. We never expected him to carry the team, he just made the team better. The same way it would be ridiculous to scratch Tatar for the 5 playoff games and insert Andersson. It's an absolute joke that people are still defending that move... Also, him being a "liability" defensively is being completely overstated. He's not a defensive player, nor should he be, but in the 10 games he played he definitely wasn't a liability...

I have no idea what your point is here... You're listing all of these bottom 6 players when you're the one that suggested bringing in a bottom 6 player. My only argument is that I'd much rather keep Helm than sign Martin... Of the players that you mentioned there are only 3 that should be in the bottom 6 next season; Sheahan, Glendening and Jurco. Bertuzzi is at least another year away, Nastasiuk is likely two, Turgeon is likely three, I'm not sure if Pearson will ever make it, and Miller should be let go...

Who do we have on the team and in the minors in the same mold as Helm? Athanasiou is probably the closest thing, the difference is, he projects to be a top 6, Helm should remain in the bottom 6. If we're making loose comparisons, we have a player in the minors in the mold of Martin as well. If we want a guy that doesn't put up many point, is huge and just goes around hitting everything, let's bring up Tangradi... We do agree though that we need a good, rugged checking line, we disagree on what player makes that line better. In my opinion it's Helm over Martin, and it's not even close... Now, I wouldn't be completely opposed to Martin - Glendening - Helm, but I definitely wouldn't chose Martin over Helm...

"One thing that we want to do, we want to help our guys get better," Blashill said. "That doesn't always mean production wise you're going to improve from year to year. Sometimes it has to do with minutes, and there are only so many minutes to go around, and that can affect a lot of things including production. But part of what we want to do here is make sure we help our guys get better and make sure that we get better as a team." I'm hoping this is Blashill's way of saying that he will be relying more heavily on the kids next season to "help them get better". I'd rather lose some games with the kids at the beginning of the season than lean heavily on the vets again. The only way they'll learn is to learn from their mistakes in game situations. I'm hoping Zetterberg is 2nd line winger or 3rd line center, and Kronwall is 3rd pair defenseman, both getting around 12-15 minutes a game...

To be fair Buppy, I don't think Rich was saying "I told you so" to anyone in particular here, I think that original comment was more so directed toward Holland and his "spare part in the Calder Cup playoffs a year ago" comment... I could be wrong though. Regardless, he was just posting about how he was doing in the playoffs so far, and he's been doing very well down there. He also responded to Dickie's comment about how "Mantha was not good", with "pure craziness. he was good. he wasn't great", and I couldn't agree more with that statement. The thing that is getting confused here is that no one here is saying Mantha is elite or would have put us over the top, but we are saying that he is a very good young player, and he could have definitely helped in the Red Wings playoff run... How is it premature to say he made the team better, when the stats showed that our power-play was much better with him in the lineup? Was it a coincidence? Maybe, but you don't completely dismiss the idea that maybe he was actually a difference maker out there. I believe he was, others don't, including Blashill, but when our power-play was literally the reason we lost that series and was more deflating to the team than positive, something should have been changed... Maybe you try what worked a couple weeks previous, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but it would have certainly been worth a try... Yes, he really should have been compared to Andersson because that's who he should have displaced in the lineup. Andersson should have been out because like you said, he barely played, and wasn't even used a whole lot in the situations Blashill claimed he needed him in for. Just because player B subs in for player A, doesn't necessarily mean that player B assumes the same role in the lineup. If Andersson comes out, a much better player that was currently in the top 6, like Helm for example, moves down to Andersson's position in the lineup, and Mantha moves into the top 6. Helm is MUCH better than Andersson, so he instantly makes the line of Athanasiou - Andersson Helm - Tatar much better. Mantha then gets inserted into the top 6 on Pavs's line and all of a sudden the Richards - Datsyuk - Helm Mantha line is maybe slightly better as well.. I love Helm but he's much better suited for the bottom 6, and if one of those missed Helm opportunities had been capitalized on by Mantha, maybe it's a difference maker in a game, and in turn a difference maker in the series. Again, not saying we definitely win with Mantha in the lineup, but I do believe the series would have been a little tighter with him in there over Andersson... Does comparing Mantha to a player that by rights shouldn't even be in the NHL mean he's great? Nope, and no one is saying that he is. But he is good, and he should have been in the lineup. Anyway, that's the last I will say about how he "should" have been in the lineup... Now, all I'll say is he "better" be in the lineup to start next season...

That shift you're speaking of was an anomaly, not something he was going to do or be expected to on a regular basis. He's still one of the best penalty killers in the entire league. Also, even though he doesn't always capitalize on his chances, he is one of the top players in the league at generating scoring chances per 60... If we lose Helm, it will be a big loss, bigger than some think in my opinion...

I couldn't disagree more with that, but whatever...

Fixing this mess... with a 4th line grinder? Helm >>> Martin I'd rather roll with what we have up front for one more season and concentrate solely on the defense. Go after a top pair defenseman and other than that, give the kids a shot and see what they can do with more minutes...

"good addition", "added an element", "potential", "I hope to see Mantha on the roster in october"... I can't speak for everyone but I'm pretty sure that's all most of us were / are saying...

I don't understand where people are getting that Mantha is in any way being overrated by anyone?... The argument that any of us that are pro-Mantha have had is that he should have been in the lineup during the playoffs. Not because with him we would have without a doubt beaten Tampa, but because he would have given us a better opportunity than Andersson did. No one has said he's an All-Star or this phenomenal player, we're just saying that he's a good young player, and he makes our team better. It could also be argued that being in the NHL for the Red Wings playoff run (which may or may not be still alive) could have been better for his development than being in the AHL for the Griffins playoff run...

Just differing opinions. I was just asking Richdg to back up his claims that Bean isn't good defensively. Regardless, I'd be more than happy if we could snag him with our pick. Yeah, I'd like to keep all of our picks as well, but I'd trade our first and second round picks for Trouba in a heartbeat...

Yeah, that's not going to be easy, since Calgary were put out in the first round of the playoffs... We do agree on one thing though... Bean will likely be gone before we draft at 16, and likely for good reason...

How about you provide some of this said tape, that shows how awful he is defensively... I'd love to see it, seriously, if he's as bad as you claim he is defensively, maybe showing some footage of him getting caught up ice and out of position, would sway me...

Had Blashill used his players better, they could have had a better chance WITH Mantha...

I missed the first game, but watched the last two and Mantha looked really good in both. He still coasts a bit, but always seems to find the quiet areas in the offensive zone, which seems to be what all true snipers are able to do. Both of his goals last night were heavy shots, one was a snap shot that went through the net, and the other was a bullet one-timer from the point. As much as I like him as a net front guy on the power-play, with his shot, I'd almost rather see him utilized on the right half-boards. Regardless, there's no question he needs to be a full-time Red Wing to start next season. Sproul and Russo have both looked really good as well and I hope Sproul makes the team as our number 7 to start next season...

So because they go on and on about how gifted he is offensively, but don't mention much about his defensive game, you take that as he "doesn't play defense"?... Here's what I took from those articles... "absolutely deadly in transition", "best puck distributor in draft class", "long skating stride and great edging", "always thinking far ahead", "great passing gets him out of trouble", "defensive ability needs work", "active stick to shut down opponents", "needs added strength"... Thanks for reaffirming my belief that he would be a great pick for us in the first. Based on scouting reports and rankings, I'd like to see us take Jake Bean in the first, Lucas Johansen in the second, and as a late round sleeper pick Kenny Johnson...

Yeah, Holland was a great GM, probably the best in the business for a lot of years, but he's never been known (in the cap era) to make any big trades to help this team. In three short years Nill has turned that team around, and made some of the best trades league wide in that time frame. I have full confidence that Holland will get great deals for our RFA's, but making a big trade for a top pairing defenseman... I'm not so sure. I think if Nill took over for this team three years ago, our defense and team as a whole would look entirely different... For better or worse? Who knows... I do still think Holland was probably the better man for the job in this "rebuilding" phase though. There's no question he is a very patient, methodical GM, and that's what you need in a rebuild. Because of Kenny, the Red Wings have been known for their ability of drafting and developing players, and many other teams have taken on the same model. I think we're just about done the rebuilding phase, now I think he has a big opportunity starting this summer to get this team back on track. Not just into the playoffs, but back to being a contender. I think he needs to make a couple moves this summer, get us back into the playoffs for the last season at the Joe, and then by 2017, opening of the new arena, we should be back in the top tier of teams. Yes, I do think that it's possible to make that happen in just a year and a half... Get 'er done Kenny!

I agree that we'd be much better off using those assets to trade for a player like Trouba rather than to trade up in the draft. A guy that just turned 22 that can help us immediately and would be a huge part of our future core moving forward in the "rebuild". I will say though, that I think Chychrun is going to be a stud, probably not quite as good as Ekblad, but would likely be a top 2 pick in most draft years. This year is a very deep draft that is forward heavy at the top. I also think he could possibly be ready the year after drafting him, the same way as Larkin. But for all those reasons, I say there's little to no chance we're able to move up high enough to land him. I do agree that you should be looking at the best player available in the first, but if you have two players in mind (a forward and a defenseman) that you have ranked around the same, I think you draft based on need then. My ideal scenario to bolster this defense going forward would be to trade for Trouba, and draft two high end defensemen in the first two rounds...

I'd re-sign Helm at $3M for 5 years to play in the bottom 6 in a heartbeat. I don't care if he's 3rd line center or 4th line winger, he's worth every bit of that for his speed, forechecking and penalty killing in my opinion. No way he's looking for anywhere close to $7M...

No 3rd round pick.

"Winning is a big part of it," Helm said. "I want to win. I really dont mind playing on the bottom lines as long as theres that respect factor. You get opportunities in different situations. If that looks like thats the case that Ill get to play in those situations that I feel that I can play in then Ill be happy. If not and they tell right away thats not going to happen, then I may not want to stay. Lot of decisions to make, well see how everything goes with the talks thatll happen."

Ok, so please support your opinion with some credible sources backing it up... I haven't read or heard a single thing about Bean not being capable of playing defense... He's the number one guy I want right now unless we can somehow move up 8 spots (not going to happen) to grab Chychrun... We would likely have to move up a couple as well in order to land Bean, but he may fall to us at 16...

Richdg, where do you get all of your know-all on all of these 17-18 year old prospects? I'll admit to knowing very little on any of them other than what I read online and a scattered clip. I've never seen most of them play and the one's I have seen have been 2-3 games at most, and those games I watched, they were never really on my radar... So, I guess I'm just wondering, do you actually scout these players or are you just like the rest of us? Because you seem to be pretty confident in your lists an analysis on every player every year... Anyway, this is what I found on Jake Bean - "A shifty and intelligent defenceman that plays with panache and poise. An excellent skater that is a good puck-carrier up the ice. Makes very good decisions with and without the puck, and plays strong positionally. Works hard and doesn't give the opposition much to work with, but could stand to be a bit more assertive during high pressure situations. That being said, he is not a one dimentional player. He displays natural talent in the offensive end, but also plays a complete defensive game in his own end. He has a proactive stick and boxes the opposition out, limiting lanes. All-in-all, the type of all-around defenceman that you want to have on the ice as much as possible". - eliteprospects.com Certainly doesn't sound like a defenseman that doesn't play defense to me based on that. Care to support your statement with some sort of evidence? Either way, I'd take an offensive minded defenseman that can skate and control the play any day over a defensive minded defenseman that can hit and play in his own zone. But that's just me...