krsmith17

Nothing gets past you, you're right, I was being sarcastic. If you believe that +/- is a relevant stat in any argument, you're a lot less knowledgeable about the sport than I previously thought. Right again, I'm a teenage kid that's never played the game. I actually just heard about the sport two years ago, but I've been a huge fan ever since... You obviously know way more about hockey (that's how it's spelt isn't it?) than me. Great chat though, I feel like I've learned so much... Joakim Andersson > Anthony Mantha, Smith sucks - Got it!

Andersson is just SO VALUABLE that four months ago we decided we didn't want him anymore, put him on waivers and not a single team wanted to pick him up for a measly 800K...

My point was never to have Mantha on the 4th line, so you should probably stop implying that's what I said, because it's not at all... I'm saying Mantha on this team right now is far more important to this team today and in the future than having Andersson in any capacity. The guy is a plug. I said before we clinched a playoff spot that I wanted us to make it for the simple fact that it would give the kids (including Mantha) some much needed experience. Now that he's been sent down, our team is worse now than it was a week ago, and Mantha loses out on the chance to gain some NHL playoff experience, as well as (possibly) a last chance to play with and learn from one of the best forwards of this generation. I think it's a mistake. You'd rather Andersson in the lineup. Cool... Also love how you keep pointing out his +/- stat. That's when I could really tell you played at a high level and you know your s***...

Haha so you're going to be THAT guy are you? "I played the game at a high level so my opinion means more than yours" Haha. Im actually an ex-NHLer so i guess my opinion trumps yours... By the way, I never once said I should be the coach, or that I know more about the game than Blashill. In fact I've said Blashill is a great coach, but just like every great coach, he has his flaws. Blashill's biggest flaw in my opinion is player usage. But your right, I don't understand the game, so who am I to voice my opinion on a hockey forum...

So how do you explain Glendening's minutes? You obviously haven't payed much / any attention to how WE use our 4th line. Glendening averaged 15ish minutes a game this season and last season in the playoffs. What makes you think that would change. It definitely would not. I would rank all three of Glendening, Helm and Sheahan as three of our best penalty killers, which is just another reason I would play all of them together on the 4th line. You say putting three centers on the 4th line is ridiculous but then say Andersson should be in there because of his faceoffs ability... By the way, Helm hasn't played any significant time at center in a couple years. He's better suited as a winger - bottom six winger... To say that Andersson is even remotely better than Mantha at any aspect of the game (other than faceoffs) is laughable...

Why would our 4th line all of a sudden only get 7 minutes a night? When all three have averaged over double that all season long? IF that were our 4th line they would be relied upon heavily and would likely get 16+ minutes a night matching up against / shutting down the oppositions top line... You're right though, we can't afford to have Athanasiou and Mantha playing in the top 9... We're going up against a very physical defense? Really? The only defenseman on that team that I would consider physical is Coburn, they don't have that clown Gudas anymore. I never suggested putting Mantha on the 4th line, but even so, there's not a doubt in my mind that he would be a much better player than Andersson, even in a 4th line role. Andersson flat out sucks...

You know who else "maybe" has "potential" to become top 6 players? Bertuzzi, Nastasiuk, Frk, Nosek, Holmstrom, etc... That's what I see as the equivalent of saying that Marchenko "maybe" has "potential" to become a top 4 defenseman. He is and never will become anything more than a bottom pairing shutdown guy in my opinion... Our offense if subpar right now, because we are in transition, but the potential we have up front in the next few years far exceeds what we have coming on the back end... Anyway, I guess this is all based on opinion, so there's not much point in arguing any further. I think we need much more help on the back end, you think we need just as much help up front. Okay... Regardless, I hope we can package our first and a player/prospect to move up and take one of the top defensemen available. I don't see us moving up high enough to get Chychrun, but that would be amazing...

Frank, you really think someone will offersheet DeKeyser? Not going to happen.

I've never heard a single person ever say they "dislike" DeKeyser. I do agree that he is / will be a legit #2 defenseman, but I don't think he gets close to 6-7M for 8 years on this contract. He's an RFA and if there's one thing Kenny has proven he is very good at, it's re-signing his RFA's to very reasonable cap friendly contracts. If we're able to bridge him, we should absolutely go that route. The chances of DeKeyser regressing to a very solid 2nd pair guy is much more likely than him becoming a bonifide number one in my opinion. Not saying he will regress, I expect him to fall in between as a very good number two, but if we can get another few years out of him on a cheaper contract, why wouldn't we? I say we sign him to a similar contract that Nyquist just signed, which would lead him into UFA status, then we re-evaluate and re-sign him before that deals up in a few years from now...

I don't think anyone really blames Andersson for sucking. For me anyway, I blame management for still having him in the organization and the coaching staff for still playing him... I hoped back in January that he would have been claimed off waivers, of course he wasn't and now he's back with the team yet again...

I'm probably one of Helm's biggest supporters and I really hope we can work out a deal to get him extended this offseason. In saying that, he is much better suited in the bottom 6, whereas Mantha is not suited for the bottom 6. So you can play Mantha, who has had a positive impact in every game he's played, in the top 6, and play Helm, who is a positive impact player no matter where he plays in the lineup, in the bottom 6. Or you can scratch Mantha, play Helm in the top 6 with Datsyuk and put Andersson, who is awful at just about everything, in the bottom 6... Which is the better option?... It's not like it would be a disservice to Helm to play him in the bottom 6 and be our go-to guy on the penalty kill. A 4th line of Sheahan - Glendening - Helm would be a weapon in the playoffs, and if that were our 4th line, I'd have no problem with them playing big minutes, matching up against the other teams' top lines..

I agree VM. When I said subpar, I meant it more like "subpar" when Buppy said he hasn't done much of anything in the time he was up...

Yeah, I still think there's a strong possibility that Datsyuk plays out the remaining year of his contract. I just hope this isn't a huge distraction heading into the playoffs, and hopefully the team can use it as motivation...

Buppy, you never said he didn't provide offense in the games he played? Really? Either I'm terrible at comprehension or you're awful at explaining yourself... Your very first post in this thread... "Mantha hasn't done much of anything in the time he was in. 2g, 3p in 10 games, spending 81% of his ice-time with Datsyuk. To say he "provides offense" is a stretch. He has potential, but let's not act like he's been anything special."... That's where it started. Because to me, he has done / shown plenty in the time he was in, to garner a permanent spot for this playoff push / run. You pointed out his subpar stats and I responded saying that you cannot just look at his points to tell whether or not he has been a positive impact player. He absolutely has, and it is not just potential. He makes the team better right now, and he made the power-play much more dangerous while he was in. So why send him down? Because his defense is subpar? Who gives a s***. Yeah, let's put Andersson in the lineup because he's such an amazing defensive player / penalty killer. He's not at all. He's viewed as a defensive player because he spends the entire game defending because he provides zero offense. If anyone thinks Andersson is a better option than Mantha or Jurco in any situation, I'm going to question them. Blashill is a pro head coach, and a good one at that, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't make bad, sometimes awful personnel decisions, because he does. I think he's an absolute moron for inserting Andersson in the lineup over Mantha, just as I do for him scratching Smith every single night for Ericsson and Marchenko. Would I be a better head coach? Hell no. Would those two changes make this team infinitely better? 100% My whole point is that Mantha should be in the lineup on a consistent basis because he adds an element to this team, whereas Andersson adds absolutely nothing except a decent faceoff man, and a worse penalty killer than 4 or 5 other guys that we have in the lineup every night... If you agree, great, if not, I really don't know what else to say here...

DAL - 5 STL - 7 LAK - 5 NSH - 7 NYI - 7 DET - 6 PHI - 7 PIT - 6

So Marchenko can be considered a future top 4 but Nyquist and Tatar are not top 6?... You're still trying to suggest that we need just as much help up front as we do on the back end? We are far more set in the future up front, and it's not even close... The only reason we should not be going hard after a defenseman in the first round is if a forward falls to us that we just can't pass up. My preferred option is still to try and trade up and get one of the top defensemen in this years draft. We have more than enough high end forwards in the system, with little to no high end defensemen...

Buppy, he looked really good to me because he was providing offense, he maybe didn't look so good to the coach because he wasn't / isn't a great two-way player. I don't see the need in having all 12 forwards in the lineup playing stellar defense. We have more than enough guys that play a great two-way game that we don't need to convert Mantha into a defensive stalwart. I want Mantha to continue playing his offensive game and line him up with two reliable forwards that can cover for him. I don't want him changing his game, in turn hurting his offensive game... I'm not acting or suggesting you're saying he sucks or will never do anything. I'm not sure where that came from... I'm not sure if you're confusing me saying he's been providing offense with meaning that he's producing points. It's clear he hasn't put up a huge number of points but he absolutely did provide offense, and no matter how many times you say he hasn't, it won't make it true. He absolutely did. Besides, the entire argument, for me anyway, is that we are scratching a player that is better now, and is / should be considered a much more important piece today and in the future, for a player (Andersson) that shouldn't even be in the NHL... Mantha should be playing with the Wings on this playoff run. Disagree if you like, but don't try to suggest that hasn't provided offense, because it simply isn't true...

I'm far from Richards' biggest critic, and I actually think he has been pretty good for us this season. But I'm of the mindset, that we should be playing this years' playoffs to prepare our kids for the future. There's no way Richards is with this team next season, at least there's no way he should be... And let's face it, short of a miracle, this team is not winning the Cup this season. I'd rather put together a lineup that will somewhat resemble what we are going to ice next year, get the kids some all important playoff experience, rely heavily on the youth and allow them to soak up as much as they can from one of the most naturally skilled, all around forwards the NHL has maybe ever seen...

Larkin - Datsyuk - Mantha Nyquist - Zetterberg - Abdelkader Tatar - Athanasiou - Jurco Helm - Sheahan - Richards / Glendening DeKeyser - Green Smith - Quincey Kronwall - Marchenko / Ericsson Howard / Mrazek

10 games in which he's looked very good. His advanced stats, as well as the ol' eye ball test has been very good. Sure, he's benefitted playing with Datsyuk, but like I said, he's created quite a few scoring chances on his own as well. He hasn't proven anything? Has he proven that he doesn't belong or he isn't ready? Not at all in my opinion. Is Andersson more deserving of a spot in the lineup? The bottom line for me is that this could be the last opportunity for Mantha to play alongside Datsyuk and I think they should be taking full advantage of that...

Yeah, the whole "backing in" bulls*** is kind of overstated. Sure it would have been nice to win our last couple, going into the playoffs on a high note, but like has been mentioned, it was an 82 game season, not 2 or 3 games. We had a tough schedule down the stretch whether it was opponents, back to back games, or whatever. We're in and that's what matters. I think we have a good shot against Tampa. Happy Silver Anniversary Red Wings! 25 Years!!!

Buppy, I strongly disagree that it's still all just potential at this point. I think Mantha looked great in his short stint, despite the lack of production. He has provided offensive pressure and created quite a few scoring chances for himself and his teammates on his own. Although the points haven't been coming the way they probably should, he was a huge contributing factor to the success of the power-play. His size and reach alone are huge assets, and he wins a lot of board battles. It's not as if he was a defensive liability at all either and with Pav on his line, we don't need a defensive dynamo out there. Like others have mentioned, we've made the playoffs, we're not expected to go far (a round or two with a little luck) and now is the time to get these kids in the lineup to get experience and learn from their mistakes. Especially with this potentially being Datsyuk's last season, Mantha should be up, soaking in as much as he can, while he still can. If Andersson is in the lineup over Mantha and Jurco for game one, I'll lose my s***...

Sending Mantha down is a huge mistake, but is it possible (hopeful thinking) that because he hasn't played a game in what would be a week and a half, that they're sending him down for a game or two with the Griffins tomorrow (and Wednesday) to get him back playing before our playoffs start?... Please let this be the case. Like others have mentioned, he's played well, provided offense and a weapon on the power-play to a team that severely lacks in both areas. Not to mention what playing on a line would do for both Anthony and Pavel... Dumb move. #freemantha

Where does this idea that we would have to retain 50% of Howard's contract come from? I don't get it, the contract isn't THAT bad at all. I believe we can potentially trade him without retaining any of his cap-hit, but the most we would likely retain would be 25%, and even that I doubt would be the case... It blows my mind that people still think there's all these untradeable contracts when it has been proven over and over again that any player / contract CAN be moved... Moving Howard won't be easy, but it's not as difficult / impossible as some people are making it seem...

Absolutely, and as long as Holland knows that is and should be the case, he needs to trade him the first chance he gets, when his stock is at his highest. Will that be at the end of this season? Or mid-season next year? I think it all depends on this year's playoffs, which starts today...