krsmith17

I haven't changed my tune on anything. I don't know if you realize this but your second pair can be considered both top 4 our bottom 4. Me saying that all of these guys are bottom 4, only indicated that they are not top 2. So yes, I do believe that Sproul still has potential to be a 2nd pairing defenseman. I also think Ouellet and Jensen have potential to be a 2nd pairing defensemen. But I don't believe Marchenko will ever be anything more than a 3rd pairing defenseman, despite being further ahead in his development. He is further ahead right now for several reasons, he is older (23), he has been playing pro hockey (KHL, AHL, NHL) for the past 6 years, whereas the others have all only played 2, and his strongest attribute is his defensive game, which is easier to translate to the NHL. Which is also a reason Sproul is so much further from the NHL and has found himself scratched in the Griffins playoff run this year, he is purely an offensive defenseman and that is hard enough to translate from junior to the American League, let alone to the NHL. You can't seriously think that just because Marchenko was paired with DeKeyser for a game or two, and that DeKeyser is our future top pairing defenseman that that makes Marchenko a top pairing defenseman... I love how you talk about all these kids like you've been watching them all for years. I don't think a pro scout would be talking about these kids potential and future with as much confidence as you seem to have. We all know what we have gathered from scouting reports and the rare highlights online. With that, we know very little about any of them, and I'm willing to bet you haven't seen many (if any at all) of these kids play an actual game, outside of the top 5 picks... I'd be okay with trading back, I'd also love to trade up, and I'd be fine with keeping our pick at 19, but wherever we pick, we should be looking very close at every defenseman available. This will without question be a defense heavy draft for us. I think if we keep all of our picks (1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7) we should take 4 defensemen and 2 forwards. I agree that Meloche and Spencer (if we trade back) would be good picks, and I also wouldn't mind Roy. Trade up and get Werenski and that could definitely be your future top pairing... DeKeyser - Werenski.

I didn't name close to every forward. I only named the players that I believe will still be here in 3-5 years, or have a legitimate shot at making the Wings some day, on both forward and defense... Of the current forwards, I left out Datsyuk, although I don't think it's out of the question for him to play beyond his current contract, into his 40's. I left out Franzen, because I believe his career should be done. I left out Weiss, Miller and Andersson simply because I feel they're all very replaceable within the organization. I also left out Cleary and Cole for obvious reasons, they should / most likely will retire... Now on to the prospects / players we still hold rights to that I left out... Aubry, Hudon, Frk, McKee, Bodin, Pope, Melen, Ehn, Vahatalo, Kadeykin, Miele, Porter and Campbell. I don't believe any of those guys have a real shot at making the Wings roster at any point, although I wouldn't doubt but at least one surprises (Ehn? Kadeykin?), just like I wouldn't doubt at least one on my previous list disappoints (Tvrdon? Turgeon?)... On the defense side I left out Quincey, Kindl and Zidlicky because I don't believe any of them will still be here in 3-5 years. Out of the prospects / players we still hold rights to, I left out Almqvist, Marshall, Nedomlel, De Haas, Wheaton, McNulty, Lashoff, Hicketts. Again, none of which I believe have a real shot at making the Wings roster at any point, although I wouldn't doubt at least one surprises (De Haas? McNulty?), just like I wouldn't doubt at least one on my previous list disappoints (Jensen?)... So is Ericsson a top 4 defensemen or not? Don't get me wrong, I believe he is a decent 2nd pairing guy, but I would bet most of this board think he's better suited on the 3rd pair. If an upgrade is available we should definitely take it, be it trade, free agency or draft. Rumors have also been "floating around" that we need a big bodied top 6 forward. So we are just as likely to grab a forward as we are a defenseman in free agency, are we not?... So if we sign a forward in free agency we shouldn't draft a forward because he too will hit waivers before we have a top 6 opening because we will have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Sheahan, Abdelkader, Nyquist, Tatar, and our free agent signing all fighting to remain in the top 6... Do you see how ridiculous this is?... "We have spent a lot of draft picks on defensemen the last few years"...? By few, I assume you mean 3 years? Since 2012 (3 years ago) we've had 21 draft picks, 16 of which have been forwards, 3 have been defensemen, and 2 have been goaltenders... So no, we haven't spent "a lot" of draft picks on defensemen at all, hence our need to draft D... I agree that our top 6 needs to be rebuilt, and that's exactly what we've been working on for the past couple years and will continue to work on for another couple. But these top 6 replacements are already in the system, some of them just aren't quite ready yet. We don't have any (maybe 1 if we're lucky) top pairing defensemen in the system right now... Ouellet, Sproul, Jensen and Marchenko all project to be bottom 4 defensemen. So we only have 2 forwards that could be considered potential game breakers / future super stars? Really? So we only have 1 on defense then right? And I think it's even a stretch to say that about DeKeyser to be honest. He's a great two-way defenseman with top pair potential, but future super star? Not sure about that one... So you don't believe Athanasiou is a future top 6 player? Have you seen this kid play? Bottom line is we have a much brighter future up front than we do on the back end. We've been drafting forwards and it is paying off, now we need to concentrate heavy on drafting defense, and I'm sure we will. Defense Wins Championships!

Against Utica we were without Pulkkinen in the 4-2 loss, but he played and had two assists in the 5-1 win... Against Oklahoma City, Pulkkinen had the only Griffins goal in the 4-1 loss, had no points and was a -1 in the 5-2 win, had no points and a -1 in the 3-2 loss, and had a hat trick and +4 in the 7-1 win... Mantha played all 6 games, scoring 2 goals and adding 2 assists... Marchenko played in every game except the 7-1 win against Oklahoma, and had a goal and 2 assists in the 5 games... Ouellet missed both games against Utica and played 2 of the 4 against Oklahoma, getting 2 assists... Ferraro played all 6, and went pointless in all but the 5-2 win over Oklahoma where he had 2 goals... He obviously won't be playing... Callahan played in all but the last game against Oklahoma, scoring 1 goal in 5 games... He remains on injured reserve... Sproul played in all 6 games and racked up 6 assists... He will likely remain a healthy scratch... No idea why...

To be clear, I didn't necessarily mean that Ilitch should fork over the $5M, just that the amount of money the coach makes is irrelevant to the rest of the team. I agree that it is ridiculous to pay a coach double what the next highest makes, especially when (for myself anyway) he isn't significantly better than a handful of other coaches in the league... I've been leaning toward wanting Blashill for weeks now, but I won't be disappointed if Babcock comes back, as long as we keep Blash in the organization...

The money isn't really an issue for me because it doesn't affect the cap, my biggest concern is the term. As long as we keep Blashill in the organization I'll be happy. I don't want to lose Blashill this offseason and then Babcock next (or the following) offseason. I'd be okay with keeping Babcock around for another year or two and then promote Blashill to Red Wings head coach after his contract is up for the 2017-18 season. However, I do think Babcock is overrated league wide, and I would not be disappointed if he were to sign elsewhere and we promote Blashill for the 2015-16 season... Hopefully we find out one way or another by today or tomorrow...

That would be a great signing, but I just don't see it happening... My bet is him signing with his hometown Wild...

We have a much more solid future forward core than we do defense core. I don't know how you don't see that. Here's how I see our players potentially fitting in the next 3-5 years... 1st/2nd line center - Larkin, Athanasiou 2nd/3rd line center - Sheahan, Nosek, Holmstrom 3rd/4th line center - Turgeon, Glendening 1st/2nd line winger - Mantha, Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco 2nd/3rd line winger - Zetterberg, Pulkkinen, Abdelkader, Helm, Bertuzzi 3rd/4th line winger - Nastasiuk, Ferraro, Callahan, Tvrdon 1st/2nd pair defense - DeKeyser 2nd/3rd pair defense - Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith, Sproul, Ouellet, Jensen, Marchenko I know this is very debatable and no one is going to agree with this 100%, some will think it's pretty accurate and I'm sure others will probably think it's way off base... Regardless, the way I see it is we have a ton of potential top line guys up front and we only have one true number one guy on the back end. Sure, Sproul or Ouellet or whoever could surprise and be that number 2 to pair with DeKeyser, but as it stands right now, I don't see it happening... I realize that any rankings site can be very subjective and HockeysFuture is no different, but do you think it's any coincidence that we have 3 forwards in the top 30 (5, 18, 26) and no defenseman in the top 50? We need a true number 1/2 defenseman for the future, and I fully expect Holland to address that in this years draft.

I'm pretty sure Blashill isn't making any more than $4-500K coaching the Griffins.

Zacha is not better than Hanifin, and it is debatable whether or not he is better or worse than either Provorov or Werenski. With it being so close, and either player with the potential to become a star, as well as the potential to be a bust, I would pick the guy that fills the bigger need. And in my opinion, that is a defenseman. We have a ton of "depth" at d, the problem is we don't have anybody that projects to be a top pairing defenseman. Sure, we can take our chance at landing one at 19, or we could trade back and have two shots at landing one in the 2nd round, or we can put some pieces together and move up and take a higher percentage shot at a guy like Werenski. I personally like option 3, but like I said, it's not going to happen, so either of the other two are the likely outcome...

Good catch Buppy. I was thinking we won the West this year, but you're right, the Comets finished 1st with 103, and the Griffins finished 2nd with 100.

The Griffins are waiting to see who they'll face in the Western Conference Finals between Utica Comets and Oklahoma City Barons. Utica is up 3-2 in the series with game 6 tonight and game 7 (if Oklahoma win) on Wednesday night. The schedule for the Eastern Conference Finals between Manchester Monarchs and Hartford Wolf Pack has already been released. The ECF starts May 21st, with the first two games in Manchester on Thursday night and Saturday night, so my bet would be that the WCF would start on May 22nd, with the first two games in Grand Rapids on Friday night and Sunday afternoon...

I think there is a very high chance that Babcock stays in Detroit. I think the Wings are his best option (best chance to win now and in the future) of the teams on the board, and his family want to stay in Michigan. In saying that, I've had mixed feelings throughout this entire process and I still remain up in the air in what I would like to see happen. Part of me wants to keep Babcock and another part thinks it's time for both he and the team to move on, and promote Blashill as the new head coach. I don't see it being at all likely that we keep both, so if we do keep Babcock then we will most definitely lose Blashill. What if Babcock does decide to re-up for just one season at a time? We lose Blashill this year and Babcock next year? I think Kenny is smarter than to allow that to happen. I do think Babcock is very over rated and I get sick of some of his strategies and line mash ups, so I am leaning toward wanting Blash to take over. He's a great coach, and I believe he will likely win another Calder Cup with the kids this season. That will be 2 Championships in 3 years. I know the American League isn't anything close to the same as the National League but I do believe he can translate that same success to the NHL. He knows all the kids just as well or better than anyone in the system and I think he would continue doing a great job developing these guys with the big club.

Richdg, Defense >>> Center. Zacha would be a great pick but in that situation I'd take Werenski 10/10 times. Jimmy, you're right that it may not be enough and I also agree that we will likely move back again to gain another pick, but I just think we should be going for quality over quantity at this point. I mean, we're already likely to lose some players due to an overabundance of prospects in the next year or two. I say trade some pieces away along with picks to get a better player in the draft... But, it's just not Kenny's style. Correct me if I'm wrong but with all the times he's traded back, I don't think he has ever traded up in the first...

I hope you're right jimmy, but with Callahan being injured for the latter half of last season, and Ferraro impressing in the last dozen games, there's no question he now has the edge going into training camp. There might not be room for both but there's no question in my mind that both are a significant upgrade over Andersson, so I will be pissed to see one of them scratched or waived in favor of Andersson... Re-sign Landon and Mitch and let Joakim walk... As for the draft, we trade back almost every single year to grab an extra pick, with the glut of prospects we have I think we should be thinking quality over quantity, and trade up this year. I have no idea what it would take to move up around 9 or 10 but I'd love if we could and take Zach Werenski. I'm not sure if this would be enough but I'd offer a package something like... SJS - 2015 1st (19th overall), 2016 2nd, Jakub Kindl, Xavier Ouellet DET - 2015 1st (9th overall)

Buppy, we have taken a goaltender every second year like clockwork. We took Larsson in '06, McCollum in '08, Mrazek on '10, Paterson in '12, and Perry last year in '14. My bet is on us taking another in '16 and I really don't see it as a huge need with Mrazek in the system. Kid is the real deal and should be able to man the pipes for the next decade. I don't see the point in saying "if Datsyuk and Zetterberg were already gone..." They're not gone and we have time for these kids to grow into legit NHL players before they do. Between Sheahan, Larkin and Athanasiou, there is not a doubt in my mind they can fill the top 3 center spots. There are top pairing defensemen and top line forwards picked late in the first round and even in the later rounds every single year. With our track record in drafting, why would you think we can't get a top player at 18/19? Do you think we need to pick in the top 5 to get a top player? I don't...

Both were dirty goals. First was a tip-in. OT goal was a rebound. That's what I love most about this kid. He goes to the dirty areas and gets rewarded. Don't be fooled though, kids got some pretty decent wheels, hands and shot as well. Very excited to see Little Bert in the Winged Wheel in a few years.

What a beauty this kid is. Love it.

Buppy, I listed 7. Recount. I added Turgeon to the list before you responded. I could have added a few others as well but I think those are the ones that have a legit shot in becoming Wings sometime in the future. Let's just agree to disagree because I think center is one of our strongest positions in the future. I'm not saying don't draft any, I just think our main weakness is on the back end. Therefore we should concentrate on defense, particularly in the first round (or first couple rounds if we trade back). I believe that both Larkin and Athanasiou will be better than Sheahan and like you said, Sheahan is already a number 2/3 center. Having Glendening as our number 4, we have a sh*t ton of guys that can potentially fill those top two slots (Larkin, Athanasiou, this years 3rd, who knows...). We desperately need help on defense. Pick Meloche or Roy in the first and I'd be happy.

1-1. Under 2 remaining.

Buppy, no it's not at all actually. I listed 7 centers, one of which is already a lock in the lineup, so that leaves 6 to fill 3 spots. All of which are very promising players. It would be more like saying DeKeyser, Smith, Sproul, Ouellet, Jensen, Marchenko, Hicketts and De Haas could fill our top 4 in the future. And although that is possible (not likely) it is the exact point I am trying to make. Our forward depth is unbelievable. Our defense depth is lacking in a big way...

So we have Larkin at 5, Mantha at 18 and Pulkkinen at 26?... Two wingers and a center. No defense...

Mantha, Athanasiou, Bertuzzi and Nosek are not even close to being the same type player. Mantha is anything but expendable. In fact, he had a very reasonable year production wise for a first year pro. The only reason you along with others think he is a bust after one season of pro is because of all the hype. He was overhyped from the get go. Athanasiou is exceeding expectations but I'd be willing to bet both Andreas and Anthony have similar stat lines next season in Grand Rapids. How is drafting a center the safer bet? And why would we need a center over a defenseman? We can absolutely get a top line center or a top pair defenseman at 18. We have Larkin, Athanasiou, Sheahan, Turgeon, Nosek, Holmstrom, Glendening down the middle. Surely they can fill all 4 center positions for years to come. We drafted what? 6 centers in last years draft? I guarantee we focus on defense this year and our number one pick should be a defenseman. Anyway, I'm done with this. I have my opinion, you have yours. I'll talk Griffins but enough about the draft here. Also, I agree nyquististhefuture. Well said.

So you think that Mantha is "more expendable" because we have three other forwards, none of which have as high a ceiling as Mantha? I think Athanasiou could be the best of all of them but his ceiling isn't as high as Mantha's. We can't get a top pairing defenseman at 18? Care to explain? So what are you expecting to get at 18 in a forward? We need help on the back end in a big way, so we should be picking a defenseman with our first rounder this year. I just realized this is the Grand Rapids thread, not the Draft thread. Anyway, big game coming up in an hour. Go Griffins!

You haven't given up on him at all? Sounds a lot like you have to me... Anyway, I'm not going to argue Mantha's value but I will say is that in this thread you're saying that we should have drafted the defenseman rather than the two forwards, but in another thread you're saying we need to draft a big forward rather than a defenseman in this years first round... Doesn't make much sense to me...

We traded back to get Mantha, knowing that he would still be available. We got our guy and were able to add, what is turning out to be, another very good player. It is way too soon to give up on Mantha, I have no doubt he'll be a top 6 NHLer in a few years, and Bertuzzi may have been drafted to be a bottom 6 agitator but he's looking more and more like a top 6 guy. I guarantee we win that trade.