krsmith17

I think Larkin will make the jump to the American League in 2-3 years when he's 20-21, and then make the Wings roster full time when he's 22-23. Jimmy, I think Datsyuk will still be here in 5 years, but that's not to say he'll be our number one center. I think that's very unlikely, even for Pav...

I do agree, and I have noticed some very veteran like plays that he's made, but I have also noticed some very rookie like mistakes, which makes sense seems how he is... a rookie. But for me, I've just never been overly impressed with Ouellet's game. If we were to use a defense prospect in a trade, he would be the first on my list. Not because I think he is the least skilled, but because I think between him and Sproul, they have the highest value, and there's no way I trade Sproul. I think once Sproul is ready to make the jump, he will definitely go through more growing pains, that's why I'm happy to see him stay down in Grand Rapids for at least another season. But once he's ready, I think he will be a stud.

harold, You, me and Mike, along with every other Wings fan is hoping he sticks with the club, but Kenny may (probably does) have other plans... Kindl is obviously a downgrade, but I honestly haven't been that impressed with Ouellet. I like him and all, but he never really wows you, he plays a very solid game for the most part, and I guess that's all you really expect from your third pair. And that's sure as hell more than Kindl provides... That's correct Jimmy.

So now, we are even more loaded up with centers? You were complaining about the abundance of centermen on this team just a few short weeks ago, and now we add another? I get that you were just throwing O'Reilly's name out there as a hypothetical, but he's not a player that this team needs going forward. If Datsyuk and / or Zetterberg were retiring after this season, then yes, we would be forced to make a move. But like I said earlier, I believe they both have a solid 5 years left with the Wings. Holland better have a plan for a smoother transition than when Lidstrom retired, and I believe he does, and that plan includes Larkin. I wouldn't do either of those proposed trades including Larkin, but we both know where each other sits on the Smith point, so let's leave it at that...

I'm not sure if or when they will take Kindl off IR, but as of tonight, he is healthy and Ouellet is still in his place. I have a feeling Xavier gets sent down in the next little while, unless there is a trade... which I doubt...

Ok, that's fine. But we both agree that that package will not get it done for a team that is in need of a defenseman... That was my point. Not that it had to be Helm and Smith, more so that a roster defenseman would have to be involved.

What? Where did I say that it would take two roster players, plus Larkin, plus a first round pick? Have you been drinking Kip? lol. In all seriousness though, everything else I'll agree with. That is a good package that would land a very good player, of O'Reilly calibre, but we both agree that the Aves wouldn't be interested in that deal.

Kip, I completely get what you're saying, but I don't think we're quite there yet. I think by next years trade deadline we will be a serious threat. That is when I would look at making a trade to put us over the top, if that's the route every contender needs to go, although I'm not so sure about that... I also get that no team has ever done anything with a purely home grown team, but as it sits right now, we have to be the closest team to that. I honestly do believe we can win the Cup with the roster we have now, shedding a little bit of dead weight, infusing a little more of the youth, and maybe a free agent signing. I don't think trading is the only option to get us to the top. I think Ken Holland is going to do what he can to keep the guys he drafted and turn this team into a contender, so we'll have to see how it plays out...

I don't need to go back and look... It was what? An hour ago. My memory isn't that bad. I know you were just talking in hypotheticals, but so was I. And I was saying if that trade hypothetically were to happen, we would have to give up a top 4 defenseman. Then you argued that, by saying that other players like Spezza, Seguin and whoever else went for less. Then you agree with Son of a Wing when he says the exact same thing... Also, good job in avoiding the first part of my response. I don't know about anyone else, but you're not making much sense to me here today... It seems like you're just trying to argue for arguments sake. And as far as the whole Smith debate, that was long ago, I never said I wouldn't trade Smith for Yandle, I said I wouldn't trade Smith plus the other assets it would take to get Yandle. Just like this situation. I would trade Larkin or Helm or whoever for O'Reilly, just not all the assets combined that it would take to get him...

Haha I guess neither the penny or the mil would be much good to ya then... s*** out of luck...

If I offered you $1,000,000 today OR $0.01 today, doubling each day for 30 days... Which would you take?... 95% of LGWers take the million up front, I'm just glad Holland would take the penny... Holland wouldn't make any combination of a deal there. Sure, making that deal makes us better today, but we take a huge hit in the future...

Okay... I'm extremely confused Kip... I said you may think we can get O'Reilly for Helm, Larkin plus a non roster player (meaning a prospect or draft pick), then you go on to say, you're not sure where I'm getting that from, and then follow that up with, you'd add a 2nd (or a first)... Is a draft pick a roster player?... My point is and has been that they're going to be asking for more NHL ready players than just Helm, a prospect and a pick... like a top 4 defenseman... Making that trade today, I think we're slightly better today, but much worse off in the long run. That's just my opinion, and I'm basing it on the fact that I believe Larkin is going to be a big time player in the NHL in 4-5 years. If it's Smith we're giving up, which I think we would have to, we're significantly worse now (my opinion), if it's the first round pick, it hurts our future, on top of the loss of Larkin. Then you go on to agree with what Son of a Wing says, about it being silly to talk about because they'd be looking for a top 4 defenseman in return, which is what I said... Sometimes I think you just like to argue with me...

You may think we could get an O'Reilly type of player for a package of Helm, Larkin and non roster players but I highly doubt it. The first thing the Aves should and most likely will be looking for in any potential trade for O'Reilly, is a legitimate top 4 defenseman. I don't see how adding another forward (area of strength) for a defenseman (area of weakness) gets us closer to the Cup... I don't see us being over the top favorites this year, and I'm okay with that. I'd rather hold on to our assets, and continue building a legit annual Cup contender, which I think we're very close to doing. Yes, O'Reilly will help now and in the future, but we'd also be giving up other assets to go along with Larkin, which in the end I don't think makes us any better...

A line doesn't gain chemistry after just one game, they were just getting all the bounces in that one. I'd be very surprised if they stick together any longer than tonight's game. Glendening should and will be centering the 4th line and Sheahan should and most likely will be centering the 2nd line.

Kip, I never compared O'Reilly to Helm, I compared him to what I believe Sheahan will become within a year or two. I think Sheahan is a second line center and will be a really good one, at what I think will be a cheaper price, in a couple years. I'm not saying that 6 million is crazy over-payment, but as you admit, it is over-payment, and I agree with Son of a Wing in that he will demand more money or go to a team that will pay him after his current contract is up. It would obviously take more than Helm and Larkin to get him here and Colorado are looking for help on defense, so maybe Smith, Helm and Larkin. I know you would be completely okay with that, but that is huge over-payment in my opinion. You talk about our future top 5 centers being O'Reilly, Athanasiou, Sheahan, Nosek and Glendening and talk about how they're all fast, tenacious, hard working and strong on the puck, but that right there is what describes Larkin's game to a tee. You say how O'Reilly should be a good two-way center that puts up 60 points, but that's exactly what Larkin should be capable of as well. So why give up the extra assets for something that you already have in the system? To help the transition after Datsyuk and Zetterberg retire? I honestly believe that is a good 5 years away, and by that time Larkin will be the same age as O'Reilly is now, and well on his way. Don't get me wrong, I would like to have O'Reilly on this team, but I like having the home grown kid, plus Helm and Smith more...

Yup, pretty damn funny isn't it? At some point, I'd like to sit down and read the whole thread for a good chuckle... Some people just need to troll... Funny how the only person who "Liked" the OP's rant was fat guy in a maltby jersey... These are the same people that are lingering around GDT's at the beginning of games when we go down by a goal or two, but mysteriously fade into the abyss when we score a couple to tie it, and eventually go on to win the game... ******* Hilarious...

Dickie, like I've been saying since this conversation started, obviously I would trade either of these guys for a super-star talent in his early 20's, that's a no brainer, but those guys just aren't available. How difficult is that to understand? For what Holland is likely to be looking for / likely to get in a trade, a.k.a. a 2nd-3rd pairing right handed defenseman (even that's questionable) all of these guys are off the table. There's no way we land a Tavares or Seguin type player in a trade. Not gonna happen. As for O'Reilly, I agree with nawein. I think he's a solid two-way center, but I wouldn't trade Larkin plus the other assets it would take to get him. For one, you're the one always saying we need to trade Weiss or Helm in a package for a winger or defenseman because we have too many centers, forcing them to play out of their natural position. Why would you now want to add another center, for a player who (I think) has a higher ceiling, plus other assets? It just doesn't make sense to me. That's making an unnecessary trade, just to make a trade in my opinion. Not to mention, as good as I believe O'Reilly to be, I do think he's overpaid, and on a good team, he's a second line center at best. It's pretty crowded down the middle right now and I think we already have our O'Reilly in Sheahan. He has played over 300 more games at the same age, but I see them rounding out to be very similar type players. Both, great two-way players, and I believe Sheahan will provide similar offense and be a solid 50-60 point guy within a year or two.

Exactly my question... Who is potentially available that you would trade Mantha or Larkin for right now? I personally wouldn't for O'Reilly or Yandle. For a Ryan Johansen or Sean Monahan type of player, I would. So yes, there are players that I would trade them for, but not for any of the players that would be available... Why are you so fixated on saying that Mantha, Larkin, Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Pulkkinen, Sheahan, etc, etc, etc. are not untouchable. They're all obviously available in the right deal. The problem is, that deal is never going to become available...

So because, Lapointe wasn't a career first line player, and not all mid first round picks work out, we should trade away Mantha and/or Larkin for a quick fix? Makes total sense... Guess what? Not all first overall picks work out either. Maybe Buffalo (or whoever) should trade Connor McDavid a year from now, because Patrik Stefan... I'm so happy Holland actually knows what he's doing with all these kids. Yes number9, "In Kenny We Trust" is making a comeback. It never really left me, but others will once again soon see why this man is still the best in the business.

LOL Are you seriously saying that we should trade one or both of Mantha or Larkin just because they have been our highest picks in 24 years?... Please elaborate... Please...

gcom077, I agree. But the reason I believe in these kids, isn't because of highly touted they were on draft day, and not because we found some late round gems. Sure we have great scouts, but more than that, we know how to develop players. Not a single player is ever given anything, every inch has to be earned. That is why our young guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, etc. are playing so well, and that is why I believe that guys like Mantha, Athanasiou, Sproul, etc. will be able to step in and make an impact right away. They're not being rushed into the NHL and they are learning how to do things the Red Wing way, down in Grand Rapids. I don't think our kids would be as good as they are today if they didn't spend so much time down in Grand Rapids rounding out their game. I also think Jurco may have been rushed in a little too soon, and his development has been stunted a little. I think he will be fine, but some more time with the Griffins could have done him some good.

Yes, they both do have future franchise player POTENTIAL. I think any first round draft pick has that type of POTENTIAL. Especially one that has put up the numbers that these two guys have. Will they get there? Who knows. Only time will tell... For the right price? Absolutely. Which is precisely what I said... But I also said, that will not happen. So yes, these guys are here to stay. In 10 years, we will be happy that Holland did not trade these two studs for the quick fix, that so many trigger happy fans want.

There's no way we should trade either of these guys unless we're offered a trade that we cannot refuse, which won't happen. These guys aren't going anywhere and for good reason. They're two of our highest picks since Marty Lapointe, back in '91, both of these guys have future franchise player potential. Keep all of our young guys and prospects, stay the course, and we will once again be a annual Stanley Cup contender. Kenny has been patient with his players for his entire tenure, there's no reason to believe that would change. I don't think there's any chance he trades, Mantha, Larkin, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, Pulkkinen, Athanasiou, not at this point anyway. There value is only going to increase, so why not see what you have with these young guys before you decide which one's are keepers or which one(s) to ship out.

What is this fixation in pointing out that so and so didn't play in Europe so it's not the same situation?... The point is that every player develops at a different pace, some much later than others. To go along with the generalization that you're using in saying that he won't make it because so and so didn't make it taking the same route, you're now saying that European's in general don't want to play third pairing minutes in the NHL, and that they would rather be the go to guy in Europe?... Come on man, that's ridiculous. Who's to say that it wasn't Patrik Hersley's lifelong goal to one day play in the NHL? I'm not saying it was, but for you to say it wasn't, is way off base. You're reaching here, and for what? Again, no one here is saying "We Need To Sign This Guy", "He Is For Sure The Real Deal". People (myself anyway) are just saying that it wouldn't be the worst idea to give him a look in the offseason. Really, what's the harm in inviting him to training camp and if he impresses, and he's willing, signing him to a two-way contract? None...

How do you not see that Kip? Mike Richards is far superior to Tomas Jurco and Teemu Pulkkinen... Richards won a World Junior Gold, an Olympic Gold and two Stanley Cups... What the f*** have those two chumps done? And Danf****** Cleary and Johanf****** Franzen are awwwwful...