krsmith17

^^^ This! ^^^

I'm going to have to assume that the post you quoted was the only one of half a dozen or so posts you actually read from me yesterday... I get skimming some posts, especially some of the longer ones. Everyone does it. But you completely missed on several of my points. Maybe you disagree with all of them, but the post you quoted completely misses the overall point I was making, or trying to make... I fully admit that Askarov has elite potential. I still wouldn't pick him at 4th overall. I would never consider a goaltender in the top 10, under any circumstances. No matter how high his ceiling, because I believe his floor is always going to be that much lower (bust potential, that much higher). Let's just say that we know right now that Askarov is going to be the top goaltender in the league in five years, and Raymond (for example) is going to be the 10th best winger in the league in five years. Who would you rather have on your team? For me, it's still the forward, because I believe skaters have a bigger impact in more facets of the game. I also think it's much more likely that Raymond becomes a top 10 winger, than it is that Askarov becomes the top goaltender. Because like you said, goalies are voodoo. And like I said, we can't afford to miss on these top picks. Believe me, I understand the intrigue in Askarov, he could be the real deal, but me personally, I'll always take the skater over the goaltender in the top 10.

Schooled? How so? I'm well aware of our goalie history... I'm making the point that it's more important to have elite players (forwards / defense) and good goaltending, than it is to have an elite goaltender behind good, not great players. Your counter to that was the stacked Wings teams of the early to mid 90's that came up short. The problem with that theory is that while Cheveldae and Essensa may have been bad, Vernon and Osgood weren't that much better. If anything, you're proving my point. The elite, power-house Red Wings teams of the late 90's won, despite good, not great goaltending.

This is what I don't get though... Why take such a risk with such a pivotal decision for the organization? This will be our highest pick since Keith Primeau, back in the 1990 draft. We can't afford to mess this up. Askarov has a ton of potential. No one is arguing that. But in my opinion, he's also more likely to bust than Stutzle or Raymond. And even if all three hit their max ceiling, I think either of the forwards would be more valuable to this organization, than the goaltender. Again though, that's just my opinion on the impact of each position in general.

I doubt we're getting rid of much dead weight. We're likely not getting a buyout, which could be a good thing, if Yzerman can weaponize his cap space. Nielsen or Abdelkader might get demoted to GR, but probably not. And honestly, contract aside, I doubt Brome or Suter would be *much* of an upgrade over either. They're younger, so they have that going for them, but I'd say at best they're bottom six wingers, which we have more than enough of. If any player wants to come here on a two-way, league minimum contract, sure, but I doubt any of these players will make any meaningful impact on the team. In short... Sure, why not...

Again, nevermind hindsight. Nevermind the players I mentioned. Whoever we draft, we're hoping will be the best player on our team. Better than Larkin. Better than Mantha. Better than Zadina. Better than Seider. If you had to choose, would you want that player to be a player or a goalie? For me, and this just comes down to personal preference, I'd pick the player every time. I would never build a team around a goaltender, no matter how highly touted. Yeah, obviously we have to pick the right player, but again, in my opinion, there will be at least a couple players available at 4, that will end up being more valuable to their team than Askarov will be to his. I just don't value goaltending as much as some I guess... It's obviously much harder to find elite players (non-goalies) outside of the top 5-10 of any draft. Logic says we should use those picks on players... There are almost always number one calibre goaltenders available beyond the first couple rounds. Again, logic... And like I said, I just hope Yzerman doesn't...

Like I said, never mind what the players have done, because in hindsight, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that would rather Price. Kopitar or Price in a vacuum, who would you rather build your team around? For me it's Kopitar, even if he were a winger. What makes you so confident that Askarov will be a stud number one goaltender, but anyone else available tops out as a 2nd line center / winger? Stutzle could fall. He absolutely has 1C potential. Raymond will likely be available. He absolutely has 1W potential. I'd even say that Perfetti, Rossi and Holtz could have top line potential. Drysdale definitely has top pair potential. I think all of those players becoming top line talents is no less likely than Askarov becoming a stud number one goalie that you build your team around...

It's never a bad thing to take a chance on a free agent, but chances are, like Brome, he's probably another minor league acquisition for some team.

Yeah, without Vernon / Osgood, the Wings may have never won those back-to-back Cups... Again, it's not because I don't think Askarov is the real deal, it's because I don't believe that's the smart way to build a team. Build around a core of elite players, not an elite goalie. 2005 was a pretty weak draft, outside of Crosby, Price and Kopitar. Crosby obviously went 1st, Price went 5th, and Kopitar went 11th. Who would you rather have on your team, likely as your best player for over a decade, Price or Kopitar? For me it's Kopitar, and it's not even close. And not just because Kopitar has two Cups and Price has zero. I'd take the top center (or winger, or defenseman) in a draft, over the top goalie, ever. single. time... Even if Askarov becomes a goalie of prime Price calibre (odds are, he won't), I'd still say at least one or two of the forwards available at 4, will be more valuable to their team, than Askarov will be to his team.

I just hope Yzerman doesn't want him at 4...

1. I'm in agreement that we should have kept Mrazek over Howard. I believe you and I were two of the few people that were vocal on here about how dumb that was. In hindsight, I'd still say we should have gotten rid of Howard in favor of Mrazek. 2. I think you missed the entire point of my post... I don't care what our track record has been in drafting goalies. No team has a great track record in drafting goalies. The reason for that, they're way too unpredictable. Even "can't miss franchise" type goalies taken in the 1st round don't always pan out. I think Askarov will pan out. Maybe not as well as some think... I just think there are bigger needs, and better ways to build a team, than taking a goaltender 4th overall. The teams that have drafted a stud goalie, for the most part, have lucked into it, most of them coming outside of the 1st round... On average, teams pick a goalie every year or two. Most teams have a similar track record as the Wings, hitting on one or two in the past 15-20 years. If it were up to me, I'd take a goalie every two years (at most), and I wouldn't pick one until the 3rd round (at the earliest), unless one dropped dramatically into the 2nd round. Chances are, Askarov will go in the 10-20 range, but if he somehow drops to 32, I'd be all for Yzerman taking him there. Hell, even if he's still there at pick 25, I'd be okay with Yzerman packaging another pick to move up from 32. At 4, I'd be pissed. I'm hoping for Stutzle or Raymond. I'd be okay with Perfetti, Rossi, Holtz, Drysdale. I'd be pissed with Askarov.

I really don't understand how anyone would want this team to take Askarov at 4, or even trade back to take Askarov with our top pick. I'd never waste a top pick on a goaltender, especially with so many elite forwards available. I'd be okay with a lot of different picks at 4, but if we waste our highest pick in 30 years on a goaltender, with all of those elite forwards / defenseman on the board, I'll be pissed. Not only is goaltending a much harder position to project, where these 17/18 year old kids will be in 3-5 years, but it's also a less important position, in terms of overall impact on a game. There's a bigger gap between an average to elite forward / defensemen, than there is between an average to elite goaltender in my opinion. Teams often win with average goaltending, as long as they have elite talent in front of them. Teams seldom win with elite goaltending, and average defense / forwards in front of them. Look at how many elite goaltenders have never won anything. Look at how many elite teams have won with average goaltending. Build from the forwards in, not the goalie out... This team is lacking in a lot of areas, but goaltending should be addressed in the later rounds. Not 4th overall... If Yzerman wants Askarov, he should try to move up from 32, or acquire another 1st round pick by taking on a bad contract. I don't think he should even be a consideration at 4th overall...

Why though? I admit, I wasn't that high on Perfetti up until a few weeks ago, but that was mainly because I hadn't put much time into anyone outside of the top three, until after the draft lottery... Since then, I've watched / read a lot of videos / articles on him, and the other players in our range, and I think he may have the highest ceiling of any of the players that could be available at 4th overall... I think his skating, or lack thereof is being overstated, and what he may lack in top end speed, he gains in hockey IQ, which is said to be off the charts, and work ethic. Perfetti is an extremely smart player, can slow the game down, and works like a dog. Those are attributes I value highly. In saying that, skating is another attribute that I put a ton of stock into, so if Yzerman believes it may hold him back, I'd pass as well. I think I'm still leaning Raymond, because he's a similar player in a lot of ways. He thinks the game at a high level, plays a solid two-way game, but is also an elite skater. I agree though, I'm still hoping Stutzle drops to us, and I honestly think it could happen. I wouldn't be shocked at all if LA or Ottawa take Drysdale in the top three.

I highly doubt Askarov slips out of the 1st round, but that's the only way I would want to draft him. I would never use a top 10 pick on a goaltender, no matter how talented, especially in a top heavy draft like this one. Personally, I don't like drafting goaltenders in the top 2 rounds of any draft. The position is way too unpredictable to project, and those picks are way too valuable to waste. There are high end goalies drafted beyond the 2nd round, just about every year. We need to hit on those, and we may have already done so. Larsson and Brattstrom were both 6th round picks, and Eliasson and Petruzzelli were both 3rd round picks. I think one of those four could pan out, and if not, pick one up via free agency or trade. Don't waste valuable picks on such a crapshoot position, unless a "can't miss" goaltender like Askarov slips to us in the 2nd round...

What I meant was, it would cost more to take on the three years of Ladd, than it would the two years of Eriksson, or the one year of Steen. I still don't think the Islanders would be willing to give up two consecutive 1st round picks and a prospect, to get rid of the contract though. If they were a contender, maybe, but the Islanders aren't a player away from winning the Cup, and they're also not as tight against the cap as teams like the Canucks and Blues. Vancouver are up against the cap with a few players like Virtanen, Gaudette, Leivo and Tanev to re-sign this offseason. Their big offseason is next year though, with both Pettersson and Hughes expecting huge raises. They're definitely going to need to move a player like Eriksson. St. Louis are in a similar cap situation, but only have one big name to re-sign. But if they want to keep Pietrangelo (I expect them to), they're definitely going to need to move a player like Steen. Those are the two teams / players that I'd target this offseason, and if it were me, I'd be asking for either 2020 or 2022 1st round picks. Both are expected to be much deeper drafts than 2021. 2022 is also the Shane Wright draft, so no lottery protection...

Yzerman should absolutely be taking on a bad contract or two, but it's not going to be any more than one, or two tops, and I think you're expectations are too high on a lot of those returns. I'd be good with any of Eriksson (VAN), Steen (STL), or Ladd (NYI) along with a 1st, for any of Ehn, Erne, Perlini, Biega, late round pick, etc. It might cost a bit more to take Ladd, but you're not going to get two 1st's and a prospect. I also don't think Tampa will be giving up any prospects, let alone a top prospect like Foote, to get rid of Johnson. Johnson may be slightly over paid, but he's still a valuable player, and should garner some interest, without having to attach a valuable asset, even with the Nemeth for Coburn swap.

I don't think the Devils would trade 7 and 17, but the Ducks could be willing to trade 6 and 31, if they really want to get their guy at 4. I'd consider the Ducks trade, if there were multiple players I really like, and I'd definitely do the Devils trade. Getting another top 20 pick in this draft would be huge for the Red Wings. I'm hoping Yzerman can weaponize some of that cap space before the draft, and acquire another late 1st round pick. Vancouver would be a prime candidate with Eriksson, but I don't think they have their 1st this year, do they?

You're forgetting someone... You're going to want to take that back, when he drops to us at 4...

Yeah, guy's a clown, and like most clowns, he can be funny from time to time, but for the most part, he's annoying as s*** (insufferable). Suspension after suspension, and he still doesn't get it. It's a sad reality that a lot of people are so miserable in real life, that they go on the internet to try to bring others down with them...

Yeah, I'm leaning Raymond at four, unless one of LA or Ottawa take Drysdale, and Stutzle drops to us...

It's a very big deal. I'm not saying we should ever pick a player solely because of handedness, but it should definitely weigh in the final decision.

So do you still think Rasmussen is better than / has a higher ceiling than Veleno?

So do you still think Rasmussen tops out as a 4th line center?

LOL you get so mad. Same way you do on Twitter. It's not healthy... I've never said anything to indicate I was ever that high on Hirose, but you keep doing you. Right. Fabbri won't be here in a few years... Got it...