krsmith17

Larkin obvi. He impacts the game more as a center than Ovechkin does as a winger.

I didn't "omit" Kotkaniemi's 1st NHL season. In fact, I said that Kotkaniemi was very clearly ahead of Zadina in their draft +1 season. Since then, Zadina has been MUCH better. You want to include their entire young NHL careers? Sure. Neo posted it. Then 13dangle reposted it. And here it is yet again... Jesperi Kotkaniemi: 115 NHL games played. 42 points. 0.36 PPG average. Filip Zadina: 34 NHL games played. 18 points. 0.53 PPG average. Even my toddler could tell you that 0.53 > 0.36... But Kotkaniemi is sO mUcH bEtTeR dEfEnSiVeLy... ... and yet through those first 10 years, and the past 5 years, he's still been far more valuable than 99% of the centers in the league... What's your point?

Wingers can impact the game just as much as centers. Centers have to cover more ice, and probably do have slightly more defensive responsibility, but you act like wingers aren't expected to back check or play defense. That's simply not true. Most of the best players from minor leagues play center, which is why most of the best players in the NHL are centers. Do you think Ovechkin would impact the game more if he were a center? Not a chance. He's still been one of the best players in the league for the past 15 years. Except for the fact that neither score more, and neither are / will be elite shutdown centers at the NHL level. Both Zadina and Lafreniere are known for their ability to play defensively responsible hockey, despite playing on the wings... Yeah, you wouldn't expect a Canadian to understand the game of hockey... I assume you're referring to the Stanley Cup drought from Canadian cities... You do realize the majority of those American teams that keep winning Stanley Cups are mostly built of Canadian players? Also, McDavid > Draisaitl, and McDavid is a center dumbass... But I guess you're smarter than everyone else that knows McDavid is the best player in the NHL. Including Dave Tippett, which is why McDavid is the lock 1C, and Draisaitl flips back and forth between 2C and 1W... I'm sure you thought Malkin was better than Crosby too...

What the f*** are you talking about? Please point to the stats that say that Rossi is better than Lafreniere, or that Kotkaniemi is better than Zadina. Oh right, centers impact the game in more ways than wingers because they take faceoffs... So therefore, Rossi will be a more important player at the NHL level than Lafreniere. Likewise, Kotkaniemi...

You're the only person dumb enough to think Rossi has surpassed Lafreniere. Also, scenario one, Lafreniere has a MUCH better track record, and also had a slightly better season this season. So no, Rossi has not surpassed Lafreniere. Scenario two, Kotkaniemi had a better rookie season, but since then, Zadina has had a much better sophomore season. Lafreniere > Rossi Zadina > Kotkaniemi

Zadina has been better, but I don't necessarily agree with the bold. I think defensive ability can definitely be weighed in these debates. I just don't think Kotkaniemi has been notably better defensively. Not enough to make up for his poor offensive numbers anyway.

LOL you will be so upset when Zadina inevitably proves you wrong, and becomes a legit top line winger... #bust I didn't "doctor" any stats. They are literally THE stats... I'd love to see your "proof" that Kotkaniemi was so much better than Zadina defensively, because he very clearly wasn't better offensively, concussion or not. Injuries happen. Zadina also suffered an injury. Let's hope they both stay healthy next season, so you can quit bitching and moaning about Zadina in every thread...

Kotkaniemi started out hot, and was better in their draft +1 season. No debating that. Zadina has been better recently, in their draft +2 season. Zadina caught up, surpassed, and will widen the gap next season. Zadina > Kotkaniemi. I know how much it will bother you when a Red Wings prospect proves to be better than a Habs prospect...

Zadina got promoted and would have finished the season in Detroit if it weren't for an injury. Kotkaniemi got demoted and finished the season in Laval. Zadina put up 15 points in 28 games (0.54 points per game) in Detroit. Kotkaniemi put up 8 points in 36 games (0.22 points per game) in Montreal. I'm not saying Zadina will be better than Kotkaniemi (although I think he will be), but to say that Kotkaniemi has been better is false...

You said that Kotkaniemi has been better than Zadina. That's a false statement.

Well, that's a relief... I'd be a little disappointed if Zadina tops out as a 2nd line winger (Tatar). I don't see that being the case though. I think at the very least, Zadina will be a very good top line winger (Hossa). He won't likely be one of the top wingers in the league (Kucherov), but I wouldn't completely rule it out. He's still very young, and has looked good, despite what some may lead you to believe...

CRL: " Zadina is a bust"... CRL: "Well, not really a bust per se, but in the mold of a Hudler, Nyquist, Tatar"... CRL: "Zadina's potential to be a very complete Hossa type winger is definitely there"... Nope, not backpedaling at all... Except for the fact that you're wrong... Struggling to make the NHL? Says who? He's 20 years old, and will absolutely, 100% be on the opening night roster, and play a full season in the NHL next season... So there's zero chance he comes close to Kucherov, despite being ahead of him in his development at the same age? Yeah, okay. Again, not likely, but not impossible either. First of all, I never said any of those things. Not even close. Secondly, what I'm saying here is not all that far fetched. Basically, he will be better than a 2nd line winger, likely a top line winger, with the potential to be a top winger in the league. Again, very plausible.

Dropped from 6th to 7th... What a bust... These re-drafts are meaningless 5 years after a draft, let alone 2...

More absurd than ceiling = Tatar? You do know what a "ceiling" is don't you? How many player actually hit their projected ceiling? I've even said that Kucherov level is unlikely, but certainly not impossible. Especially when you consider that Zadina is ahead of where Kucherov was at the same age (NHL totals), has a much higher draft pedigree, similar build, similar skill set. The question is, will Zadina put it all together the way Kucherov has? Again, unlikely, but not out of the question... He will not be a total bust (out of the NHL in a couple years), as mackel seems to think, and he will most definitely be a better player than Tatar. Under the right circumstances, Zadina can develop into a point per game winger. Do you not think there's a significant difference between Hudler and Hossa? I can't wait for you to eat crow on this one bud. Give it another year or two, and it will be evidently clear that Zadina >>> Hudler / Tatar / Nyquist. Not that it isn't already.

Zadina floor - Tatar Zadina ceiling - Kucherov I think he'll end up somewhere in between. I actually really like the Hossa comparison...

So... Not a bust then? He hasn't changed. He's backpedaling...

Larkin isn't a winger... but then again, neither are Rasmussen or Veleno...

I'll be the first one calling you out when Lafreniere gets drafted 1st overall (he will), and makes his team out of camp (he will), while Rossi gets drafted outside of the top 5, and doesn't make his team out of camp. How much blowback should you receive when your boy Rossi struggles even more in his rookie season a year later than Lafreniere? Lafreniere probably won't drop 40 in his rookie season, since he's more of a setup guy than goal scorer, but expect him to be a top player on whatever team is lucky enough to draft him, and well over a point per game player, top winger in the league through his prime. Lafreniere absolutely could be as good as Matthews. LOL whatever you say man... If Ehn is a 25-35 point, Selke calibre *center* through his prime, I will gladly eat crow...

Agreed. People are dumb.

I get your point, but to be fair, Thornton went straight from the draft table to the NHL, and was 18 years old in his rookie season. He then followed that up with 41 and 60 points in his 19 and 20 year old seasons. Kucherov however, scored 18 points in his 20 year old season (in 52 games). Zadina almost scored as many (15), in just over half (28) the games... I doubt Zadina is going to come up with back to back 65 point seasons, and develop into one of the top wingers in the league, putting up 100+ point seasons... But I can definitely see him being a legit top line, point per game winger in a few years. Zero chance this guy is a "bust", and I doubt he'll even be considered a "disappointment" at 6th overall, when it's all said and done...

Oh yeah, definitely getting "rekt"... Ehn is irreplaceable. A key cog that will get us back to the top... I'm not responding because I'm done arguing about a mediocre bottom six forward... Debate by who? The same dumbasses that think Zadina is a "bust"?... I've never suggested that Larkin is better than Zetterberg. I said that he *could* be, at least in the same conversation, some day. Based on their respective career trajectories, there's no reason to think otherwise. As I pointed out, Larkin is ahead of Z at the same age, but yet one is/was a "HOF, 1C captain, likely to get his number retired", and the other isn't a 1C, shouldn't be named captain, and should be traded... ... and I'm the one "digging a grave"...

Based on what? Larkin is waaay ahead of Zetterberg at the same age. Zetterberg didn't crack the NHL until he was 22 year old, in the bottom six, albeit on a stacked team. Larkin cracked the NHL when he was 19 years old, as a top line forward, albeit on a bad team... Larkin, to this point (age 23) has played 389 games, and has 266 points (0.684 points per game). Zetterberg, at the same age, had played 140 games, and had 87 points (0.621 points per game). Zetterberg didn't break out until he was 25. Larkin is currently 24, poised for a breakout, after a down year. By the way, that down year that Larkin just had, 53 points in 71 games (0.746 points per game), Zetterberg had 43 points in 61 games (0.705 points per game), at the same age... Zetterberg was never on a bad Red Wings team until the last couple years of his career. Every other year, the team was considered a legit contender. Larkin has never really been on a good Red Wings team, and hasn't had close to the same supporting cast around him. Zetterberg was never expected to be "the guy", again, until later in his career, after all the future hall of famers had retired. Larkin was immediately expected to be "the guy", (captain or not), as soon as Zetterberg retired. I'm not going to say Larkin will have a hall of fame calibre career (he could when it's all said and done), but to say he definitely won't, or that "he will fall way short of Zetterberg", at this point is dumb... And you rag on me for calling a 4th line winger (who is older than Larkin) "replacement level"... LOL

I definitely don't see Ehn as a problem with this team. Far from it. I just don't see him on the team through this rebuild, unless he's able to round out his game, and add a little offense. Right now, it's nonexistent... Some of you clearly see some untapped potential there with him. I don't see it, but who knows...

It's 1. for me, and it's not really close. Lafreniere is the best player in the draft, so it's a pretty easy choice. Elite wingers can drive a line just as well as elite centers. Take the better player. Also, I wouldn't be so sure that any of the top centers would displace Larkin as the top center. At least not any time soon. Byfield *might* in 3-5 years if everything goes right for him, but I see Larkin as this team's 1C for the foreseeable future, regardless who we draft this year.

Absolutely. And you wouldn't be wrong in saying so. Zadina is probably a borderline top six winger at this point, but he absolutely will be a top six winger. You disagree. You think the same with Ehn. I disagree. What's your point? Again, I disagree. No different than you calling Zadina a bust. Except for the fact that it's not as dumb... When did I say I "like" Perlini any more than Erne? And when did I say Perlini can learn defense? Stop trying to put words in my mouth... I'm not saying any of these things. Literally, all I'm saying is that Ehn is a replacement level, border line NHLer. I don't think he lasts any more than a few seasons in the NHL. I'm aware that I could be wrong, and if I am, great. But why are you getting so bent out of shape over it? Who cares... Not at all. I just think the "most likely" scenario usually falls somewhere in between two extremes. I still don't see him on this team through the rebuild. Why does it affect Ehn and not Larkin? Elaborate. I don't have a clue how one can apply that to one player and not another without being a total hypocrite and exposing blatant bias. Yeah totally "raciss"... Most of my favorite hockey players are European, but I have a bias for good ol' North American boyss... Again, with the Perlini bulls***... Nosek - not in Europe, clearly means Ehn - won't go to Europe. Science... Cool bud. You do you. Ehn is a replacement level player. I know how much it would kill you to agree with that... I'm done with this.