krsmith17

"Deficiencies in his game" and "abysmal defensively" are two completely different things. He definitely has deficiencies in his game, like most young, first year pros. He's far from "abysmal" defensively.

Yes, "he had it in junior". The "calmness" hasn't really gone away, but it probably should have. He was able to hold onto the puck in junior. He can't in the NHL, because everything is so much faster, and players are on you in a split second. He needs to learn to get rid of it quicker, and make split second decisions. Again, that in my opinion isn't panic. It's a lack of urgency. To me, prone to panic would be if the second he got the puck, he immediately wanted to get rid of it, throwing it blindly off the boards or up the middle. In my opinion, that's not at all the case with Cholowski. He gets the puck, wants to make the right play, holds onto it a few seconds too long, and a forechecker is already on his back, and causes a turnover. He needs to make quicker decisions with the puck.

Yeah. AGAIN, his passing has been bad. He's been bad. I'm not disagreeing with any of that. The ONLY thing I was disagreeing with, is the reason his passing has been bad. I don't think "he's prone to panic" with the puck. I think it's the opposite. I think he has too much patience with the puck, thinks he has more time than he does, and as a result, he coughs it up. I'm not saying this is a good thing, or even a better thing. Regardless, his timing is off, and it's equally as bad.

Maybe poised isn't the right way to explain it, but he is calm, too calm with the puck. He seems to always think he has 4 seconds to move it, when he has 2. That's what causes the terrible desperation passes. Once he adjusts to the speed of the game, I think he'll be fine. My point was, I know his passing has been bad, but I don't think it's because of panic, I think it's a lack of panic. He needs to have more urgency with the puck.

Yup, he's bad defensively.

Yup, he's stupid.

THAT absolutely is calmness. He thinks he has more time than he does. The NHL is too quick for him right now. Call it stupidity or whatever, but if there's one things he's shown since day one, it's poise with the puck. He needs to learn to get rid of the puck quicker, so he doesn't rush pucks into forwards skates and make rushed sloppy passes.

I agree that Cholowski needs more time in GR, and I also agree that he probably shouldn't have close to 52 NHL games played at this point. The one thing I completely disagree with though, and you've said this before, "he's prone to panic". If there's one "good quality" Cholowski has displayed so far, it's his poise with the puck. If anything he can be too calm with the puck, and takes an extra second or two too long to make a decision. By the time he has made a decision, he's coughed it up to an attacking player.

Exactly. A tournament in which the coaches wanted to win, not develop certain skills, and yet he was chosen to kill penalties. Why? Because he's terrible defensively? Sure... Again, I didn't say he was "great at it". Why do you insist on trying to put words in my mouth? Veleno hasn't been "abysmal" defensively. That's my argument. That's it. I'm not saying he's a future Selke winner. Nor am I saying he's having an amazing season. Quit trying to make an argument out of nothing. I never said "he's not actually a center". I just thought, like a lot of people, that he might better suited on the wing. He's looked good in GR at center though, so we'll see. I have no bias against Rasmussen at all. Never have since we drafted him.

Is that also why he's out to defend leads late in games? And was on Canada's penalty kill at the WJC? Veleno was never expected to play defense up until his final season of junior, and now his first season of pro. He's taken huge strides in that area of his game. I'm sure management want him to "continue" working on his defensive game, but it's far from "abysmal", despite his terrible +/-. I've never said anything to indicate that I think Veleno is having a "tremendous" season. He's not. His season thus far has been average at best. You know who else had an average (or very, very disappointing) rookie season with the Griffins? Mantha. A lot of people were really down on him too. I agree that Rasmussen was ahead of Veleno at the same age, and is still today. I've never disputed that. I just think Veleno has a higher upside. Whether or not he ever reaches his full potential is yet to be seen.

I like Bokk as well, but I doubt the Canes have much interest in moving him right now. According to Pronman (grain of salt), they are willing to move Gauthier, and I think he could be a solid middle (maybe top) six, right-handed winger. I don't think I would trade Mantha for Byram right now. Mantha is a bonafide top line winger. Byram, although a very good prospect, is still an unknown at this point. I think he'll be a top four defenseman, but I'm not so sure he's a lock to be a top pair defenseman.

Translation: "I don't watch any GR games either, but he has a really bad +/-, which obviously means he's really bad defensively".. Never mind the fact that he plays a key role on the penalty kill, and is depended on to defend leads in the final minutes of games... Veleno bangs in junk goal in front of the net. "He's trash." Rasmussen bangs in junk goal in front of the net. "OMG He's Amazing!!!" Veleno is probably another full calendar year away, but he hasn't been nearly as bad as his stats suggest, and some seem to think.

According to Pronman, Julien Gauthier "could be on the move at the trade deadline" ... What would it take to acquire him? Do we have anything that the Canes would want? To CAR - Athanasiou, Svechnikov To DET - Gauthier, 2nd round pick ???

Yeah, Sandin looks like he could be a stud... f***ing Leafs... I'm not as sold on Romanov though. He did have a good WJC...

There are definitely people that wish we drafted someone different with the Rasmussen pick, but I've yet to see anyone say they wish we picked someone different with the Veleno pick...

I think he's NHL ready, but likely not 2C ready. I think he could do as well as any other option we have in the organization right now, but I also think throwing him in right away, may not be the best thing for his development. I'd probably keep Veleno down in Grand Rapids to start the season as the Griffs 1C, and then call him up full time after next year's trade deadline.

Meh. I'd love to have a Pietrangelo for Seider to learn from, but I don't think it's a must. I think Seider has the raw skill / ability and hockey IQ to be an elite defenseman regardless. He just needs solid veterans around to lead him off the ice, in the gym. Between Horcoff, Cleary, Kronwall, Nemeth, Glendening, etc. I think he'll be fine. Would be nice if we can finally convince Lidstrom to come back over as an "advisor" / defense coach...

My roster obviously wasn't meant to be "likely"... Here's my "likely" roster... Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha Fabbri - Filppula - Zadina Rasmussen - Nielsen - Athanasiou Abdelkader - Glendening - Smith DeKeyser - Hronek Nemeth - Seider Cholowski - Lindstrom Bowey Bernier Howard aka, exactly what we had this season, when healthy (minus a few UFA's)...

If I were the GM... Deadline Trades: Filppula ($1M retained) - 3rd round pick Helm ($1.5M retained) - 3rd round pick Erne - 5th round pick Green - ($2.5M retained) - 3rd round pick Daley ($1.5M retained) - 5th round pick Offseason Trades: Athanasiou - 1st round pick / top prospect Nielsen ($2.6M retained) + 3rd round pick - 6th round pick Sign: Linus Ullmark ($2.5M) Let Ericsson, Biega and Howard walk / retire. If I were the coach... Lafreniere - Larkin - Mantha Bertuzzi - Veleno - Fabbri Svechnikov - Rasmussen - Zadina Smith - Glendening - Perlini Abdelkader / Ehn DeKeyser - Hronek Nemeth - Seider Cholowski - Lindstrom Bowey Bernier Ullmark

Learn how to read dumbass. I never indicated that you said that. Unless your past name is "Others"...

Lol typical kip... Avoid responding to an entire post by picking out, and misrepresenting a single word. You're an angry individual and I feel bad for you. You're obviously going through some s***, but there's no need to take it out on people on a "hockey discussion board". You're the one that needs to "grow up" pal.

I never said anything about draft rankings not being an indication, I said it's not a guarantee. Which is why I pointed to the many examples of player X, drafted in the 20's-30's being better than play Y, drafted top 10. I've never in any way implied that lower drafted players are as likely, or more likely to succeed than higher drafted players. Both Scott Wheeler and Max Bultman of the Athletic had Veleno ranked one spot higher than Rasmussen in their recent rankings (past month). I suggest that I think Veleno will be the better player long-term, and get attacked, because "RaSmUsSeN hAs MoRe PoInTs"... I also say that it's entirely possible that Rasmussen "could" end up the better player long-term. I just want both to succeed. Others believe that's impossible, because "RaSmUsSeN iS sO bIg AnD sTrOnG"... Go ahead and bet on Rasmussen. No one cares. Just quit bitching and complaining when someone bets on Veleno.

Never mind Larkin. Forget what he did last year. Forget what he's done this year. Would you consider a 70-80 point, two-way center a number one center? Hint: there's only about 20-25 centers in the league that put up that sort of production. Even less if you consider defensive acumen. Larkin is having a down season, because the team as a whole is s***, ravaged with injuries. Larkin will be fine. This team will be fine with Larkin as the number one center, as long as we can surround him with elite wingers (Lafreniere? Mantha), and added depth down the middle (Byfield? Veleno / Rasmussen).

He's a 1C on this team, and like you alluded to, would also be a 1C on nearly 20 other teams in the league. That makes him a 1C. Like I said, just not an elite one. Give him some elite wingers and he will thrive.

That doesn't make him a 2C though. That actually means he IS a 1C, just not an elite one. He may never be an elite NHL center, but he is and will be a quality 1C that plays a solid two-way game. We do need to add at least one more high, high-end center in the next couple years. Hopefully one or both of Veleno / Rasmussen can fill that 2C hole, and not be too much of a drop off from Larkin...