krsmith17

I very clearly indicated that I was arguing that we shouldn't trade EVERYONE. Not ANYONE. I'm open to trading any player on this team, if the price is right. However, I think the price would be higher, than most teams would be willing to pay for who I believe to be our core building blocks.

What about it? Why are you singling out our oldest core player? CRL, and I assume you as well, are saying we should trade everyone. Meaning all of our core players, which would include a 22 year old Hronek and a 20 year old Zadina. Should we trade these guys because "we suck"? I don't blame you. I can't believe we were talking about it to begin with... Sure. If the return is there, go for it. What do you think would be fair value for Mantha? Athanasiou?

Again, age does matter when evaluating in both instances. Lafreniere is a borderline generational talent. Byfield is not. Age matters, but I still take Lafreniere. Rasmussen and Veleno were both projected to go 10-15 in their respective drafts. Rasmussen ended up going a little earlier, and Veleno ended up going much later. Age should be considered, but it's not why I think Veleno will be a better player at the NHL level. I shouldn't even say "better player", because I see both as middle six forwards, depending on who else we add in the next few years. I just think Veleno is the better option at center. He's a much better skater. That's not even debatable. In my opinion, he's also a better puck carrier. He's phenomenal at zone exits / zone entries. I also think he has a higher hockey IQ, and a better passer. Shot, I'd probably give the edge to Rasmussen, although, neither are particularly great shooters. Rasmussen is clearly better down low, along the boards, and in front of the net. Both should be very good players for us going forward. I have no idea why this is such a contentious topic... It's like the dumb Fabbri vs Zadina debate. We can have both...

What's your point? The core of a team changes. Players eventually age out. That doesn't mean they aren't part of the current core... Mantha and Seider will absolutely be considered part of the same core. Tavares and Matthews are both considered part of the Leafs core, despite the age gap. Why are you bringing up "when Mantha is 35", "when Tavares is 36". They're not 35/36. They're key pieces to their respective teams, aka core pieces...

What makes them losers? Because they're playing on a losing team? The Aves definitely should have traded that top line of MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen three years ago when they finished the season with 48 points... What a bunch of losers...

Age matters. It's not the determining factor. C'mon man, you're not this dumb...

I understand what you're saying, but no, it does NOT make sense... "Core 4 Under 24" is exactly that. Each team's best players under the age of 24. It's not every teams "core"... How, in your brain does that NOT make sense? So Mantha and Larkin are not considered the same core because one is younger than 24, and the other is older than 24? Tavares isn't part of the Leafs core? Yeah, trade 'em all. This is the type of overreaction I'd expect from some on here. I have to say, I didn't expect it from you though.

You said "we have nothing to lose". Not true. We could lose a really good player for a lesser player, or nothing. That does not mean that I would not trade "any" of our current core pieces. I would not however, trade "ALL" of our current core pieces...

Yes. Everyone that is younger has more potential. I'm not even sure why more teams don't draft based solely on age. The youngest player in the draft always turns out to be the best player. If Rasmussen ends up better than Veleno, I will do the same. I will be ecstatic if Ras becomes a top six center. I just don't see it. That really bothers you... Again, going back to 5 years ago... It's hilarious though that you don't think player management can have any effect on a player. Fortunately, that won't happen with Veleno, so we have nothing to worry about there.

Any player has a price, regardless of age. How can they not be? What is your definition of a core? It doesn't matter what age they are. A core is the key players on a team. Is Tavares not part of the Leafs core because he's 6 or 7 years older than other parts of the core? What kind of apples are you eating? I've yet to come across one with multiple cores...

It sure is. Huge difference. Opposite can be said for their final season in the CHL. I think Veleno will be close to 0.8 PTS/G next season in the AHL. No, I'm saying it needs to be considered when evaluating players.

I thought it was obvious... You can't have it both ways... 9 months isn't a big difference between Rasmussen and Veleno, but 10 months is a huge difference between Lafreniere and Byfield...

There's not two separate cores... Seider, along with others will become part of the existing core. Nope. Nothing to lose. It's not like we could trade away a really good player, for a not so good player, or a swing and miss pick / prospect. That sort of thing never happens...

Rasmussen is "ONLY" 9 months older than Veleno. Lafreniere is a "WHOLE" 10 months older than Byfield. Rasmussen is playing his 2nd year pro. Veleno is playing his 1st year pro. There is a difference. Veleno still wouldn't even be eligible to play in the AHL if it weren't for his exceptional status.

No one has said that this core is "good enough". They are however, still very good players. To say we should trade them all is laughable. It's not going to happen. You don't completely scrap the existing core. You build around it. Strengthen it. I guess it depends on who you see as the current core... In my opinion, that includes Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Zadina, Hronek, and Seider, and maybe eventually Veleno and Rasmussen. I do think most of those players will be Red Wings through this rebuild. However, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two are traded at some point in a "hockey trade". No way all get traded. Not going to happen.

Says you... I think Veleno has a higher ceiling. We shall see. Because there's so many indicators out there that I should waver on my opinion of Veleno right? Everyone knows how high I was on Veleno on draft day. I wanted to trade up into the middle of the 1st round to grab him. He, of course, fell to us. I was pumped back then, and he hasn't done anything to sway my opinion since then. Everyone also knows how down I was on the Rasmussen pick on draft day. I felt there were much better players available at that pick (there were). Since then, I've done a complete 180 on him, and think he will be a very good middle six winger (maybe center). So yes, I do change my opinions. I don't however, turn on a player just because they're struggling early in their career. Do I hold on to hope a little too long at times? Maybe. Do some people turn on players too quick, only to make them look like idiots? Absolutely. You're trying to call me out for not changing my opinions from draft day, but then you go on to site Cholowski's draft position in a way to prove he hasn't been good enough, or he's been a disappointment? I've said several times that he hasn't been good enough. I just don't agree with completely giving up on the kid this early in his development. You already have. Cool. Some have also given up on Larkin. And Mantha. And Zadina... I think that's dumb, but whatever.

Keep pointing to guys I "oozed over" like 5 years ago... Name one player I've "oozed over" recently, that I was wrong about, and refused to change my mind?

You've gone to Facebook / Twitter level clown world posting. TRADE EVERYONE! THIS TEAM SUCKS! BOO F***ING HOO...

I'm aware that a lot of people watch Griffins games, but I doubt there are many here that watch regularly. I know of one, and that's @Wheelchairsuperhero. Are there any others? I've admitted several times that I rode Smith too hard, too long. Get the f*** over it dude. I always thought Jurco could be a middle six winger. It's not like I thought he was this elite winger. I would have back then, and still would today, with hindsight, protected Mrazek over Howard. You disagree, because you're a Howard slappy. No big deal. I'm about to ride Cholowski into the Grave? Yeah, real bold statement saying "he doesn't suck". How will I ever come back from that? You (and 91ryan) say that I'm a "prospect slappy", but then say I'm too low on guys like Ehn, and Rasmussen, and Berggren, and Lindstrom, and McIsaac, and whoever else. It can't be both. A "prospect slappy", would overhype all prospects. I don't. For the most part, I hype (maybe overhype) the high-end, skilled prospects. If you want to call me a Veleno slappy, or a Seider slappy, go for it. But there have been MANY prospect I've called out. That in my opinion, doesn't make me a "pRoSpEcT sLaPpY"... Oh, I completely got your "point". It's just dumb as s***.

Fitting. Biega is fast and tenacious, but in general he sucks.

So what makes me a "prospect slappy"? The fact that I'm one of the few here that watches Griffins games on a regular basis? I guess I'm a Cholowski slappy because I say he "doesn't suck"? If that's the case, then yeah, I am a "prospect slappy". I don't agree with giving up on 20/21 year old prospects. Does that mean I think Cholowski is going to be a top pair defenseman? No, but I do think he will be an NHL defenseman. Would I trade him in the right deal? Absolutely. I think the reason you and some others may think of me as a "prospect slappy" is the same reason you consider yourself a "slappy". Irrational hate on players. I don't think you ever would have become a "Franzen slappy" or a "Howard slappy" if so many fans didn't hate on them. This may be the dumbest thing I've read in a while. Player A, the best player on the team, sucks because you think he's playing over his head in a role he's not good enough for. Player B, one of the worst players on the team, is awesome because he can actually play the role of a 4th liner... Yeah, okay. Larkin is a legitimate 1C, that needs help on his wings. Zadina is a legitimate top six (with potential to become a top line) winger, that needs a quality center. Cholowski is a young, unestablished defenseman with potential to become a bottom four defenseman. Biega sucks, but I do agree that he's an ideal 7th defenseman. Ehn is a replaceable 4th line center / winger. Some of you think (for whatever reason) that Yzerman is going to purge Holland's old roster. Get rid of Larkin. Get rid of Mantha. Get rid of Athanasiou. But whatever you do, do NOT get rid of Ehn...

No chance Francouz will be available. The Aves have more cap space than any team in the league. There's no reason for them not to come back with one of the better tandems in the league again next season. I think our best option is to trade for a youngish goaltender.

Yeah, we really need to get rid of that huge Bernier contract. It's really crippling this team going forward... Trade him for whatever we can get... 4th round pick, do it... There's always that 4% chance we get a 4th line winger in the 4th round... Why do people think Francouz is going to be available? He's not. There's no chance the Aves don't re-sign him. There's also little to no chance that anyone better than Bernier will be available in free agency, wanting to come to the worst team in the league... So next season we're left with Howard and Pickard... That should be another fun season...

As a 21 year old defenseman on a team that is far and away the worst offensive team in the league, yes that is some what of an achievement. No one is saying that he's this future offensive dynamo, just that he doesn't "suck". That's literally it...

I think Cholowski has potential (he does). I've stated why I believe he has said potential. You think Cholowski sucks. You've yet to explain why you think he sucks. You and CRL (the same guy that thinks Larkin and Zadina suck) are the only two that have said "Cholowski sucks". Some people have been disappointed, and rightfully so. I've also been disappointed. I just don't see the need in saying "he sucks", because... he doesn't. I'm not a prospect slappy. I've called out many bad prospects. I've also been right on a lot more prospects over the years than wrong. When have I ever said "Yzerman would never dare trade Mantha"? I haven't. I've said Lindstrom isn't likely anything more than a bottom pair defenseman. You disagree? But yet, I'm a "prospect slappy"?... Yeah, okay...