krsmith17

I doubt you'd find any players that young, drafted that high, putting up those points, that don't translate to the NHL. He's a highly skilled player, that plays a solid two-way game. There's no reason to believe that wouldn't translate to the NHL. At the very least, I think he'll be as valuable as Athanasiou. I think there's a reasonable possibility that he could be much more valuable than Athanasiou... I didn't say he "won't" bounce back. I said he "might not", just like you're saying he "might"... If he's "off the board", that usually means the team isn't interested in trading him (not available), because he has established himself as a legit top six winger... You're set on him becoming a 3rd line guy, and I have no idea why... Because you "think" you "might" have heard some TSN guy mention it a few months ago?... This seems eerily similar to the Gusev debate we had a few months back. For whatever reason, you think any player playing in Europe, no matter how skilled, won't translate to the NHL. Gusev was 26, and you didn't think he was worth a 2nd round pick. He's already proven that he's a legit top six winger. Puljujarvi is 21, and you don't think he's worth a streaky, middle six winger. He too will prove to be a legit top six winger. I just hope we're the beneficiary of Edmonton (hopefully) selling low on him...

I don't buy it. Puljujarvi a top player (just under a point per game) in Liiga. That translates to about 40 points in the NHL over 82 games. He's just 21 years old. Give him another couple years, and I think he could easily be a 50 point winger in the NHL. No one is arguing that Athanasiou wouldn't bounce back in Edmonton. But would he bounce back in Detroit? Probably not. I'm sure he could be a 30+ goal scorer again on McDavid's wing, but what does that have to do with this team? Who said anything about Puljujarvi being available from another team a year from now?

Who is projecting him to be a 3rd liner? And based on what? Also, at this point, Athanasiou is a middle six winger as well. Puljujarvi is 4 years younger with plenty of room to grow. I'd *consider* that trade one-for-one, and I'd definitely do it if it included a pick in the top three rounds. I'm not in any rush to trade Athanasiou, but like @marcaractac mentioned, Athanasiou's stock could just as easily plummet next season, as you seem so sure that it will rise. Also, a year from now, a prospect like Puljujarvi may be off the board, because he's finally established himself with another NHL team. Anyone suggesting a trade of Athanasiou for Puljujarvi knows there's risk involved, but in my opinion, it's worth the risk. IF Puljujarvi can ever put it all together, he could be a very good top six winger for this team, for many years.

I'd trade Athanasiou for Puljujarvi and a 3rd. Puljujarvi is still a high end prospect. It's a gamble, but one I'd be willing to make. The Oilers aren't giving up Bouchard or Broberg in a trade for Athanasiou, and there aren't really any other prospects I'd be all that interested in. I'd prefer to trade Athanasiou straight up for their first round pick, but I doubt Holland would do that...

Math checks out.

How can you say Erne was 23/24 last season when he didn't play a single game at the age of 24? He was 23 for the entire season!!! I f***ed up the playoff games. Was looking at the wrong column. But you're still f***ing up the playoff games. He played 53 games, not the 18 I originally said, or the 64 you're saying now. Anyway, the stats are irrelevant. You didn't know Erne was going to be a complete bust. And if he had played at his 25 point pace, or slightly better, like he's shown he's capable of, he wouldn't have been considered a complete bust.

When does the regular season start and end, genius? I'll say it again, Erne was 23 the entire season last year, and Helm was 23 for all but three months of that season... Everything you're saying (as per usual) is wrong. So comprehension and math... He did not have anywhere close to "60+ playoff games"... I don't give a s*** about Erne either. He's been bad. Not a single person is disputing that. But don't sit there and act like you knew he was going to be bad. You knew Erne was going to be bad, just as well as you knew Fabbri was going to be bad. (you didn't). I sure hope so...

It's actually crazy how much you try to spin everything I say. What's wrong with my comprehension? You're the one misconstruing everything... Those kinds of players were available in the later rounds 20 years ago. They wouldn't be today. For every 50 of those high end players that dropped beyond the 3rd round in the late 90's, early 2000's, maybe one or two of them would drop that far today. Scouting is just that much better these days. It's extremely rare to find impact players in the later rounds. Does it still happen? Sure, but not often enough to get this bent out of shape over trading one 4th round pick... "Nice try"... Erne was 23 the entire year last season, in which he put up 20 points in 65 games (25 point pace). Helm was 23 for all but three months of the season he put up 24 points in 75 games (26 point pace). "50+ playoff games"? What is wrong with you? He had 18 playoff games under his belt by the age of 23. But yeah, Erne only played 3 playoff games, so that obviously means that he isn't as good a player...

No where did I ever say we should trade away top picks... but yes, if we could get a 2nd line center for a 2nd round pick, you do it. Anyone (except you) would, because picks are everything, picks are life... I said you like those odds, as in you like the 4th round pick over Erne. Comprehension is hard... We need as many top 2-3 round picks as possible to land quality players. Does that mean I want to trade all of our picks from rounds 4-7? No, but I have no problem trading one for a project player. Anyone that thinks those picks are going to make a significant difference in a rebuild are f***ing delusional. Helm wasn't one of the better bottom six players as soon as he entered the league. It took a few years... Adam Erne (age 23) - 20 points in 65 games Darren Helm (age 23) - 24 points in 75 games You absolutely can compare those two players. Erne is also very good defensively. The points aren't there this year, but put him back on a contending team, and he's a solid defensively responsible winger, capable of 25+ points a season.

You always take everything anyone says that disagrees with you, way out of context. I say trading a "late round pick for an NHL player" is a smart move. You say, "WeLl LeT's JuSt TrAdE aNyThInG oUtSiDe ThE 1St RoUnD..." No, I would not trade a 2nd round pick for a bottom six forward. Yes, I would trade a 4th round pick (or later) for a bottom six forward. Yzerman obviously thought highly of Erne, and if he were the same player he was in Tampa, it would have been a good trade. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out. Maybe he was wrong. Maybe he wasn't, and our team is just that bad, that no one looks good. There's about a 5% chance that a 4th round pick becomes an NHL player. Even less that it becomes an impact player. I'm sure you like those odds over Erne specifically, because he's been bad. Do you like those odds over any bottom six winger? I'm sure you would trade Helm for a 4th round pick now. That would be a reasonable trade at this point in his career. But would you have traded Helm for a 4th round pick 10 years ago? That would have been a bad trade. It's not a stretch to say Erne could have been, or maybe still could be a similar impact player as Helm in his prime, who was one of the better bottom six players in the league (when healthy). Same goes for Perlini. He could have just as easily been a very good middle six winger, and if he had worked out like Fabbri, no one would be saying s***. He was never given the same opportunity, and thus hasn't worked out. I still think he could have a Ryan / Dylan Strome resurgence in the right situation. All the tools are there. It just seems to be mental with him. It's not going to happen with Blashill, but maybe under a different coach, or with a different team. Yzerman should re-sign him for one year at $800K, and see what he can do next season under (likely) a different coach. As for Regula, obviously I would prefer to still have him in the organization, but he's no huge loss at this point, and likely won't ever be.

Literally no one has ever said anything remotely close to this... Umm that's exactly what expendable means... Here we go with the extremism... "Well why don't we just trade every single right-handed defensemen in the organization then?"...

"S*** changes quick"? Not quick enough for you apparently... Keep hoping Fabbri slows down, or gets injured, or goes to Europe, or whatever... It's a good look. Realistically, Berggren is projected to be a middle six winger, in the exact mold of a Fabbri (or Nyquist). Like most 2nd round picks (and later), he might not ever even make the NHL...

"A future 3C" was not "known". There are a lot of dumb GM's that make a lot of dumb trades, but I think very few would turn down a do-over on this one. How can you say, in hindsight, that was a good trade? I can't understand the logic...

Yes, he is taking advantage of top six minutes? Key words there, "taking advantage". Athanasiou and Fabbri are completely different players. So middle six winger = "next messiah"?... Got it. What have I ever said that would make you think I'm in any way over hyping him? Yeah, take your 2nd round pick. Maybe we can draft another Berggren that MIGHT someday be as good as Fabbri...

A lot of hindsight there. I can do that too... If you asked those same 30 GM's the same questions, knowing that they would be bounced in the first round of the playoffs, in 5 games to the Bruins, and the big trade acquisition would have 0 points in those 5 games. Most fans thought it was a bad trade at the time, and almost everyone looking at it in hindsight would say it was a very bad trade now. I guarantee you that they all say they would NOT make that trade...

The point was, the "stretches" keep getting longer and longer. Eventually it's no longer considered a fluke... Another 2 points again tonight. Give it a rest with the "jerking each other off" bulls***. No one here is over hyping Fabbri, except for maybe CRL... I'm pretty sure most people see him as a very good middle six winger. He's just that. If he ends up on our 3rd line in a couple years, that's a very good thing. Not a bad thing, like you try to make it seem...

I'm pretty sure you've said the exact same thing ever since the trade happened... "i dont think he’ll be in detroit in 2-3 years , i wont get carried away over a 2 game stretch" "i dont think he’ll be in detroit in 2-3 years , i wont get carried away over a 12 game stretch" "i dont think he’ll be in detroit in 2-3 years , i wont get carried away over a 18 game stretch" "i dont think he’ll be in detroit in 2-3 years , i wont get carried away over a 26 game stretch" "i dont think he’ll be in detroit in 2-3 years , i wont get carried away over a 64 game stretch" "i dont think he’ll be in detroit in 2-3 years , i wont get carried away over a 2 season stretch"

No you didn't. You said he'd be in Europe in a couple years...

Mark it.

On this roster now? I don't know, but he would be one of our better players. He'd be a good stop gap before Veleno and Rasmussen make the team. He could also play wing. Yes, he would put up more points than Filppula and Nielsen now, and for the next 7+ years. If he were to become expendable, he would net us a decent return. It's not losing Jarnkrok that I think was a big deal, it's that we lost Jarnkrok, and a 2nd round pick for a few weeks of a 35 year old player... to keep the streak alive. It was a terrible trade.

Who was better at the same age? Larkin. Who will be better? Larkin. Great player, but no way do you make that trade. Three years is a big difference, and Larkin will be as good, or better, for longer.

My bad. I guess it was more of a rhetorical question. I don't think anyone with the exception of maybe nyquististhefuture would choose no trades... How about this... Regula for Fabbri = win Pope for Perlini = win 4th round pick for Biega = likely a win Kaski for Erne = likely a win Saarijarvi for Wood = wash de la Rose for nothing (waivers) - who cares...

LOL well no s***... That was my point.

If it gives us a 3rd round pick, I'll tolerate it.

I'm not really disagreeing with either having (limited) potential, but I'd take Yzerman's approach over Holland's. If Holland were still here, he likely wouldn't have made any of those trades, including Fabbri. If you had the choice between making all of those trades, or none, which would it be? I'd take them all for sure.