krsmith17

I don't think any of our trade pieces will garner anything more than a 3rd round pick, including Green. Daley might get a mid round pick if we retain salary. Same goes for Helm. I don't think Howard has any value right now. There will better goalies available. I'd hold onto Glendening and Nemeth for now, unless a team is willing to overpay.

Athanasiou is expected to miss the rest of this month, so unless he comes back in a few weeks and puts up 10+ points in February before the deadline, I don't think he'll be moved. Athanasiou is our best trade chip, but his value has plummeted this season. I say hold onto him, hope he heats up down the stretch and trade him this summer / at the draft. Outside of Athanasiou though, I don't see any of our trade chips bringing back much of a return this deadline. We may be lucky to get a couple mid round picks...

I wasn't the one that said Neilsen shouldn't have shot (although he wouldn't be up until at least 4 or 5 for me). That was mackel. You said he shot because he's good at it. He's not. He used to be, but just like the rest of his game, his shootout prowess has gone off a cliff the past year or so. I also have no problem with rewarding a player for scoring two the previous game, but Nielsen should not be a go to guy in the shootout anymore.

You're right that it's 50/50 every time, which is precisely why it's virtually impossible to flip a coin heads 100 times in a row. Unless you have a double-sided or weighted coin, or some other trickery, it's bound to even out over time. Regardless, my point was, you can't expect past "bad luck" to influence future "luck". Because I choose to believe we're due a little good luck. I'm aware of the odds, and I know we're more likely to drop back, but I want to believe for once, we'll have a little luck on our side... May be foolish, but whatever...

How did he make what?

I personally don't have any interest in trading for a defenseman that is a "complete disaster defensively"... Similar reason I had no interest in signing Karlsson to that massive contract last offseason.

No, he's not. He used to be good. The past two seasons he's been awful. 1 for the past 9 is not good enough to be the go to guy in shootouts. Because of the law of averages... If you flipped a coin x number of times, and every time it was heads, would you expect it to continue landing heads, or would you expect it to eventually land tails?

Yeah, I've suggested a Hronek - Seider top pair in the past, and I'd totally be down with trying that as early as next season. And yeah, if that were to work out, our depth on the right side is pretty bad after those two, so in that sense, I agree. Either way, I highly doubt the Rangers have any desire to move DeAngelo at this time.

Yeah, Krug isn't coming here, especially on a 5 year deal with a cap hit I'd be comfortable with. Hard pass for me.

Well he was on pace for 34 before the injury. I think it's fair for fans to believe he's capable of hitting those numbers if he can stay healthy...

I agree. Rangers aren't trading DeAngelo, unless it's a significant offer. If we're trading for a defenseman from the Rangers, I'd target Libor Hajek. Big, physical, smooth skating, defenseman with a big shot from the point. He's likely never going to be a big point producing defenseman, but a steady bottom 4 that can kill penalties, shutdown the opposition and chip in a little offensively. He's still only 21 years old (drafted just before Hronek) and likely wouldn't cost a ton in assets.

Fair, but none of Mantha's injuries should effect him long term. I hope he can stay healthy next season, and if he does, I'm sure he'll be a 35+ goal scorer.

Also, and I'm not saying I wouldn't want DeAngelo, but we have bigger needs than another right-handed defenseman right now. I'd argue we need more help on the left side, or even more than that, we need to address our lack of quality right-handed wingers...

I said this in the other thread, but again, I know you're not this dumb... There's a HUGE difference between the best players on the worst team in the NHL and the best players on one of the best teams in the NHL. I'm not saying Larkin "needs" a Pastrnak level player to be effective (he's proven he doesn't), but it sure as hell helps. No one is saying Larkin is an elite 1C, but he is absolutely a 1C in this league. Give him two capable linemates, and he will once again prove this. *The scariest part is, he has proven that he is a legitimate 1C... No one is asking you to be "nice" to Larkin because he's young, or even because the team is bad. Larkin deserves some scrutiny this season, but the argument here is, is Larkin a legitimate 1C given adequate linemates? The answer is yes, he is. mackel (and maybe you) are suggesting no, he is not...

We're not getting another Yzerman 6th overall though. No one cares that Zadina was "projected to go top 3"... He didn't. He was picked 6th overall. We're hoping to get our Yzerman in this upcoming draft... We need an elite level player. That doesn't make the high end players like Zadina any less valuable.

Yes, you did do this with me with Mantha. CRL was on your side on that one as well. I get the last laugh on that one though. Mantha is a stud, goal scoring power forward like I projected him to be. I know that's where CRL was, at least initially, with Zadina. I refuse to believe that he actually thought he was a "bust" at 18/19 years old. The thing is, that sort of mentality is what got me in trouble with Brendan Smith. Everyone would say "Smith sucks". He didn't in the beginning. He was just young, and made stupid gaffes like every young defenseman. I would defend him, and eventually I took defending him to far, even when his suckage became apparent. The same (opposite) thing is what I think is happening with CRL on Zadina. Everyone was gushing over him the day he was drafted, and CRL was here to tell everyone he's "not that good", and now he's starting to take it too far, even when he's proving that he maybe "is that good"...

Your assertion that Comrie should not have been claimed to add to a terribly shallow position is where I truly draw issue. It's not hard for me to attack that. It's a misguided notion, even with Comrie's struggles. I've never said that Larkin doesn't deserve scrutiny. That's not what this conversation was about. It was whether or not Larkin is a true 1C. Last year he was. This year, he's not? Just because he's struggling offensively on the worst team in the league? That's bulls***! Also, Larkin is "being better". 7 points in his past 7 games. He was the best player on the ice last night. He's still only 23, and is a more than capable 1C. You're really not this dumb. You think playing with the "best" linemates on the Red Wings, is the same thing as playing with the best linemates on the Bruins? There's a massive gap in skill level between those two teams and especially the top two wingers on each team. Again, situation and circumstances matter. Give Larkin Pastrnak and Marchand, and I guarantee he's a lot closer to a point per game than his current 0.64 points per game. Yeah, saying we should have kept a young goaltender with potential over an aging veteran that will probably only play another 10 games this season, lose at least half of them (allowing 4+ goals per game), and retire after this season, was really dumb... Then after it didn't work out saying "oh well, hopefully we don't end up regretting it" was really "putting myself out there"... Try harder man... You were all aboard the Larkin hype train. Now he's having a bad year and "he sucks". You were all aboard the Mantha is lazy and he sucks train. Now he's finally showing how good he can be (when healthy), and "he's one of the few players worth keeping around". You're one of two people I've seen call Zadina a "bust", since then you've started to backpedal a bit. Give it another season and you will have totally flip-flopped on your projection. That's fine though. Nothing wrong with that. You're a in the moment, what have you done for me lately kind of guy. I'm a take a stance and stick with it until proven wrong kind of guy. I don't care what you "dig up". If you really have the time to do that, good on ya. I've admitted being wrong on projections, but I guarantee I've been right a lot more than wrong.

How is thinking the league has it out for the Red Wings at all "realistic"?...

Don't we have to sign Muzzin this offseason? He did kinda, sorta get into a scrap with Mantha... I agree with that depth chart, and I'd be okay with rolling with that, until Yzerman acquires an upgrade. Wouldn't be surprised to see some changes made between now and October though...

Rasmussen finally back in action tonight.

No, but moves can be made to speed up the rebuild. The Fabbri trade was one example of that. Keep making low risk, high reward trades, and I'm sure he could hit on another one. I'm also not as sure as you that we won't get the top pick. IF we do luck out and get Lafreniere, that would massively speed things up. That along with a few other moves, continued development from the kids, and I think we could realistically be a playoff team, or at least on the cusp within two seasons. Even if we don't get Lafreniere, maybe we get an Elias Pettersson 4th overall. Maybe Seider is our Heiskanen. I don't know. I'm just not as doom and gloom about the future as some. We have a lot of nice pieces, we just need that elite player. Maybe we get him this year. Maybe next year. Maybe he's already in the system... Regarding Yzerman's "patience" quotes... No doubt we have to be patient, but that could be 3 years, not 6+ like you're suggesting.

And I'll continue to say it until we eventually luck out. I will say this though, the draft lottery is a f***ing joke. Being as awful as this team, only having an 18.5% chance at the top pick is gross. This thing isn't going to turn around over night, but I "guarantee" we won't be a lottery team for each of the next 5 years... Yzerman won't allow it.

I get that the odds aren't in our favor, but yeah, to me that is being pessimistic. If you were in a prize draw with two other people, each having equal chance to win, would you think you could possibly win? Of course you would, but yet you act as if there's no way we can possibly win (a top 2 pick in) the draft lottery with basically the same (slightly better) odds... Stop with the negativity... We're f***ing due man!

It's not 1 in 5 though. It's a little better than 1 in 3. Remember it's top 2 that we're discussing, not number 1. Still not great odds, but like I said, I believe we're due for a little luck in the draft lottery. In 2016-17 we had a 15.3% chance at a top 2 pick. We dropped back 3 spots. In 2017-18 we had a 16.2% chance at a top 2 pick. We dropped back 1 spot. In 2018-19 we had a 19.1% chance at a top 2 pick. We dropped back 2 spots. This year, we'll have a 35% chance at a top 2 pick. The odds aren't great, but if I have a 1 in 3 chance to win anything, I'm going to be at least somewhat confident I could win... If you want to be pessimistic about our draft odds, that's fine, but I don't think there's any need in calling someone stupid for being optimistic... You do you though...

Are you one of those tinfoil hat wearing f***ers that thinks the league is out to get us and that's why we won't win the draft lottery?