Rice

We were a one line team last year. Filppula and Hudler both have a full year under their belt's, they're both going to be better. Cleary is capable of playing on the second line. Holland's going to find a forward eventually.

Talk about a powerplay quarterback...

First of all, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are going to get run either way. Asham isn't going to change that. Oh, and no one was bitching about Guerin and Bertuzzi? Really? Secondly, you couldn't be more wrong about the bolded statement. The Wings would have Lidstrom, Rafalski, Datsyuk, Smyth, and Zetterberg with contracts of over $6 million. Even if the cap were at $60 million, that's around half of your money spent on five guys. No chance.

No, because if he were Hall and Asham would be in our top six -- unless of course he decided to spend $8.5 million on Guerin and Bertuzzi. Then we wouldn't even need to overpay for Hasek at $2 million! Maybe he should've signed Smyth and Rafalski and given up any chance he had at re-signing Zetterberg in two years!

Because Adam Hall would've been a better signing than Hasek, of course! Same with Guerin, even at $4.5 million a season! In fact, LeftWinger, explain to me how you think Holland overpaid Hasek at $2 million but signing Guerin at $4.5 would've been reasonable. Please, try.

I don't know why you have to spam every thread with this. It's almost as bad as the pirate thing.

The forward core this year is really not that much different production-wise as last year's, and the defense is better.

No, no we couldn't have. Once Schneider was gone, Holland had to find a replacement for Schneider. He turned to Rafalski, who is actually an upgrade. Rafalski's deal meant the Wings would have three big money contracts on the team, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, and Rafalski. The other free agents out there who would've been worth acquiring were Smyth, Briere, Drury, and Gomez -- all of which were out of the Wings' price range after the Rafalski signing. After those guys, there were some mediocre names on the market who all ended up getting much more than they deserve -- unless of course you think Bill Guerin is worth $4.5 million. Hasek did nothing to prevent the Wings from signing (overpaying) for anyone. The market was too high. No point in wasting that cash on mediocrity.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see a tougher Wings team too. However, look at all the players you mentioned. For the most part, those guys were all home grown. As I've mentioned in other threads, grit is a philosophy that begins and ends with your own system. Signing a free agent like Asham isn't going to have that much of an effect. The foundation for a gritty, bruising team has to come from within.

Hasek signing now doesn't change the ridiculous prices that other UFA's signed for.

Probably something around what he got. How would I know? How would you know? How would anyone outside of the NHL know how much he wanted. I doubt the Ducks would overpay him on purpose.

Get mad at Holland over your own baseless assumptions. Good idea.

Hudler weighs 178. Datsyuk weighs 185 with an extra two inches on him.

Listen, I'm not even that big on Hudler. I'm just saying you cant discount a guy because of his size or where he's from. He obviously has some potential; he scored 15 goals playing garbage minutes.

What should Holland have done? Overpaid for someone and risk signing Zetterberg down the road? Or would you prefer Asham on the second line? Secondly, why do you care if the media rips the Wings for having Euros. The Wings had 4 North American forwards last year at the beginning -- Jason Williams. Man, I wish we still had that guy. We need a good NA guy like him. We could ice the ******* Swedish national team, as long as they win I'd be happy. Why do you care what the media says? Obviously Holland doesn't like the team as-is. He said he wanted to add a top-six forward. The prices are just too high.

Hudler is small? Oh no! There's no way he can be an effective player in the league. Might as well not count our first line either, because Zetterberg and Datsyuk are small. Grigorenko is unproven, all forwards were unproven at one point. If he matures, he can be a top sixer and he has size.

Well, if you consider Cleary our second line, why are you panicking?

You're right. We should've given that $2 million to a marquee forward like Adam Hall! Hasek's a top 5 goalie in the league. $2 million is a bargain.

Hall! The difference maker! That would make this off-season one for the ages! You guys are ridiculous.

Lang and Calder were let go on purpose because they were non-factors. Bertuzzi was a non-factor in the playoffs. Rafalski is an upgrade over Schneider. We lost a guy that was scratched for the majority of the playoffs, a guy that was too injured to do anything in the playoffs, and a guy who scored a big goal that did nothing for the rest of the playoffs. Huge losses! Panic! How is this team worse than last year's? Rafalski is better than Schneider. Bertuzzi and Calder weren't acquired until the deadline. Basically, this is the same team minus Williams and Lang (big deal) with Grigorenko added. Plus, Filppula and Hudler both have a full year's NHL experience under their belts.

The Wings had a second line last year? Would you have paid $4 million for Bertuzzi? $4.5 for Guerin?

Good. p.s. Maltby rocks!

Just because Samuelsson is a third-line type guy doesn't mean he must be traded or waived. The guy makes $1.2 million. He's a decent scorer, he plays defense, and he has some size. If he made $3 million, I'd say waive him or trade him. He's fine for what he's getting paid.

So what makes you think Aaron Asham of all people would be such a factor? This guy is a career third or fourth liner. Fortunately the Red Wings have six guys called defensemen, too. The Wings are going to win the conference again.

Well what other basis would he be given a roster spot on? He has to start somewhere. You know, Datsyuk didn't just appear on the Wings roster either. He actually had pretty stats in Russia too. Pretty amazing, enh? Grigorenko needs a shot. If he doesn't live up to expectations, his roster spot is freed up anyway.