Richdg

Yes coaching is part of it, but not all. Most hockey fans think Babcock is the best coach in hockey, by default our coaching is going to be worse. That does not excuse Blashill in any way. But lets go back to the 2014/15 season. Of the top 10 players in points that year, 2 are not here: Weiss and I can not stress this enough: Datsyuk. he was the PP QB for what ever unit he was on. Neither Larkin or Vanek can hold Datsyuk's jock. But look further. In 14/15 Nyquist and Tatar both had about 14% shooting %'s. This year Nyquist is under 6% and Tatar is just under 11%. In 14/15 Sheahan was about 11% and is a big fat 0 this year. Those 3 had over 70 goals in 14/15 and this year they have 11 to date-on pace for less than 25. Now is that coaching or is it a matter of those guys overperformed and had their career years? I think they over performed and those were their career years. If I am right-we will not know for a couple of years yet, then we can't move a guy like Mantha. We need the scoring. The other big huge difference between 14/15 and now is Kronwall. He had 44 points in 14/15 or about .50 points per game. This year he ahs 3 points. I can't do the math to figure out how small that is. His pace is about 7 points this year for the season. That is not because of coaching. Injuries are part of it, but a bigger part in Kronwalls case is the 3 guys I mentioned before not putting the puck in the net. Just one more and unrelated thing. Tuesday night while driving home Mr Woods was talking about making the PO's and what it would take. We will need to be in the 92, 93, 94 point range. After Tuesday nights game we would have needed to go 24 wins, 14 loses and 7 OTL for the rest of the season. Does anyone think we can be 10 games over .500 for the rest of the season? I don't.

Why does our PP suck? Could it be because our F's don't put the puck into the net? Is that not their job? The majority of points scored by a Dman are assists. A typical stat line for the top Dman is 10 goals and 45 points. That is 75% assists. How do Dmen get assists? By F's putting the puck into the net. Both Tatar and Nyquist having shooting %'s below 10%, which is bad. Is that the D's fault that they can't score or theirs? yes in some ways it becomes a chicken vs the egg debate. I do find it interesting that everytime we all talk about Dmen and our team needs everyone goes to points. How much O that these Dmen produce. How many Dmen score 30 goals? None. Only F's do that. But maybe more important what about their defense? For example Most agree I think that Weber is one of the top 5 Dmen in the league. He has 20 points to date this year. Green has 18 to date and has missed several games due to injury. Does that mean Green is a top 10 Dman in the league? of course not. he doesn't play defense. BTW our O has been producing more lately with Green out of the lineup. I know it means nothing......

No. I didn't say that either. mantha isn't worth what we want and I don't want what he is worth. Not now anyway. Put up a couple of 30 goal seasons and that changes. If you read what I wrote I said mantha+ and why would Florida do that? Yes mantha might get us Fowler. But he doesn't move the bar and I like Fowler. he might get us Trouba, again not a bar mover. he will not get us Ekblad and that would improve us. But then again we have 0 cap space thanks to all the shrewd signings that have been made.......... Currently 26th in goals scored. We have numbers at F but how much talent is there if Mantha is removed? Do we have any legit 25+ goal scorers? How many legit 20+ goal scorers do we have? 2 maybe 3.......

Ok going back to the 1st round. Here are the top 7 prospects based on most ranking+mock drafts: 1. Patrick 6-3/200 RHed C/RW. He has been hurt most of the year. Shoulder IIRC. 6 games 4 goals 5 assists to date. 2. Vilardi 6-2/195 RHed C. Also has missed games due to injury. 18 games 11 goals 15 assists to date. 3. Liljegren 6-1/190 RHed Dman. Plays in Sweden. Think a better rounded Kornwall minus the big hits. 4. Vesalainen 6-3/205 LHed RW/LW. The Fin is called "Puljujarri Lite" by most scouts. 5. Kostin 6-3/190 LHed RW/LW. Plays in the KHL. Plays a physical game but needs to shoot more. 6. Rasmussen 6-5/210 LHed C. 39 games 26 goals and 17 assists to date. The knock on him was he needs to shoot more. He is doing that big time this year. Offensively he is a lot like Primeau was. Better skater at the same age. 7. Popugayev 6-5.5/205 RHed RW/LW. The big Russian plays for Moose Jaw. 36 games 21 goals and 28 assists to date. Skates well for his size/age. Those are the top guys. As you can see only 1 Dman in the top group. Patrick was the concensus #1 before the season. Will he drop because of his injury? he is still the best all around talent. My personnel top 2 are Patrick and Rasmussen. But I am not sure we can go wrong with any of these guys. I am always concerned with taking guys that have yet to play in NA. It takes them and extra year to adjust to the physical play. I will do the next 7 or so later which should cover our options in the 1st round.

You are misreading what I said. Badly misreading it.

We don't want to draft outside the top 5. To bad there is no way to ensure that..........

There are maybe 5-7 Dmen in the entire NHL I would trade Mantha + for. Fowler isn't one of them. IMHO if we were to move Mantha or guys like him you need to get a true #1 Dman that is 26 or younger and signed long term. To move a guy that looks like he is begining a long and successful career for an over 30 guy in his last 5 or 6 years would be dumb. IE I would not trade Mantha of Weber. In a straight up deal I wouldn't do it. The contracts do come into play and Weber is 30. What is the chance he is still the same player 5 or 6 years from now? But his contract will live on! Now would I move Mantha for say Ekblad? hell yes. But why would Florida do that deal? Ekblad is younger, signed for 8 more seasons, and will very soon be talked about as the top Dman in the NHL.

True, and very much part of our problem. We lack "great minds" atm.

17 goals in 31 games. He is signed already and could stay next year depending on what happens in Detroit this year and summer. Long shot but possible.

Nice and needed win tonight. BTW the RW's are now 5-2 this season in games that MANtha scores. MI you said you wanted to see Ott and Neill get into it. That would not go well for Ott. Neill is still one of the toughest guys in the NHL. Man I remember him with the Griffins..........

Nice and needed win tonight. BTW the RW's are now 5-2 this season in games that MANtha scores.

I agree. Kenny doesn't make big trades.

The first thing and I can not stress this enough is we have to get EVERYONE to understand and agree on where we are. The team has been getting worse for 8 years and we are not bottomed out yet. It will be at least 3 more seasons-more like 4 or 5, before we are a team that can once again make deep PO runs. Everyone needs to understand and agree with this so that when we create our road map we stick to it and not take detours or try quick fixes. Once I have that now we can get started. 1. End of the season I fire the coaching staff. I hire Gallant. Not becasue he is a former Wing, but because he has a proven track record of developing young talent. The BJ's got better while he was there, he had awesome teams in Juniors while he was a head man there for 3 years, and the Panthers got better each year with him behind the bench. 2. Let it be known far and wide that we are open for business. I am looking for picks in the 2017 and 2018 draft and prospects that are close but not yet ready. The following guys are really really expensive: Z, Neilsson, Larkin, Mantha, AA Svechnikov, DD, Sproul, Oullett, and Mrazek. Everyone else is available and as many as possible will be moved over the next 18 months-summer of 2018. 3. The goal is to find and develop 2-3 players each year for the next 4 to 5 years. This is the hardest part. There is no more "over-rippening". we need guys as quick as possible. 4. Don't be afraid to trade 1st round picks if a team is willing to over pay. If the picks are outside of the top 5 the more likely I am to move the pick in the right deal. For example. The Isles know they can't resign Tavaras. we have the 6th pick. Yes I would package that pick for JT-on the condition that he resigns first. 5. Build a team that is balanced. Enough with the clones. I want RHed shots at RW and RD. I want big guys, I want fast guys, I want defensive guys, I want offensive guys, and I want tough guys. Now the more of those attributes you can find in the same body, the better.

Yes anyone can be traded. But there is no 1 player in all of hockey that is going to make us a good team, to say nothing of becoming a SC team. We need several pieces. As a team we are terrible at O, 29th in scoring last time I looked. How is adding a 9th Dman going to improve our 29th ranked O? I have no issue with moving our excess forwards. But why move one of the few guys that is playing well up front? Most nights Z, Neilsson and Mantha are our 3 best F's on a team that can't score.......

Because there are still those that think he wasn't the one building the team from 95 through 2002....... Scotty decided who can stay, who needs to go, and what players need to be brought in. Now this is where Kenny needs his due, he was very good at bringing in those players without giving away a bunch of future stars. That is something Holland should be praised for. All the players and picks we have traded away over the last 25 years and very few of them turned into great players for other teams, We kept the good and moved the bad.

Just and FYI, if you go to Kenny Holland on wiki and scroll to the bottom it lists the GM before Kenny Holland and that GM is Jimmy D and Scotty Bowman. Now it has been 20 years but seems to ring true in my memory. Scotty made the roster decisions and Jimmy added/subtracted the guys Scotty wanted to bring in or have moved. Scotty couldn't have threatened Stevie with trading him if he didn't play defense if he didn't have the juice. Scotty was the one that drove Coffey out of town. Scotty was publicly wanting Shanahan for weeks before he was brought in. Ramsey, Rouse, and Murphy were all brought here because Scotty wanted them. None of that is new. All has been beaten to death over the years. The part that changed is who builds the roster. Scotty used to make the decisions and the GM's would go get his players. Now Holland makes those decisions and forces (not meant as a negative) the players on the coach.

Merry Christmas and happy Boxing Day for our Canadian friends. Enjoy the peace and love of the season!

Yup. Last game when Mantha scored said he was now in the top 20 in rookie scoring. Not bad for a guy that wasn't here for the 1st 15 games of the year.

Yes they do and IIRC they are locked in at 4th. But that could be wrong. Have to go look it up.

Holland did not build the 97,98, 02 teams. He did what Bowman told him to do. That being said Holland was very good at his job during that period of time. We won Cups and that is all that matters. He has had a HOF career. The questions about Holland in my mind come during the Cap era were he has been subpar. We haven't drafted well over the last 15 years, very few trades in total and none for impact players, very few impact UFA signings, and he has resigned far too many players to big money contracts that are not worth it. For example this is going to happen. Tatar is a RFA this summer. Does anyone think Holland will overpay to resign him? I do. I fully expect Tatar to get a 4+ year deal with an average cap hit of 4.5 million or more. At that point we will have 3 F's making a combined 12+ million that combined can't score 40 goals. (tatar, nyquist, and Helm). It is time for Holland to retire and take his place in the HOF so we as a team can move on and hopefully upward.

It doesn't matter if we finish last or 14th, the lottery will determine the draft order. Finishing 5th doesn't mean we are picking 5th. The record only determines the % of drafting higher or lower. I am not sold on Mrazek nor have I written him off. Anyone that does either is silly. he has great talent. He has had stretches of being a very good G. he has also had stretches of being a very bad G. Who is the true Mrazek? No one knows. With Howard out I would play him as much as possible because we do need to know who/what he is. Is a a true #1? A backup? A Journeyman? a AHL G? Only way to learn the answer is to play. Then the team can adjust from there.

Same here. Raw deal. Great in front of the net as a Dman.

As posted in the other thread. March 26, 2016 RW vs the Pens on FSD. Micky said Datsyuk to retire at the end of the year. The only thing that may keep him here is the fact he loves playing with Abby and Mantha. So crow.... roasted? Baked? with BBQ?

I knew there was a Primeau, wasn't sure if it was his or his brothers or unrelated.

Go ahead flame Micky. He knows nothing, has no contacts with the players, and makes stuff up.