Richdg

I will take the win, but man that was a bad call that gave us the game. 3-3 tie with 9 to go, and the refs gave us a 5 min PP on a phantom call. The down side is, sooner or later the same will happen to us.....

Some are really really over estimating Nyquist. he is not a future NHL star. Points in the AHL? Please. helm, emmerton, mursak, Abby, etc..... used to score in the AHL as well. There is no connection. At best nyquist is a 40 point a year guy in the NHL. heck, O'reilly who is YOUNGER than Nyquist is already producing more than Nyquist ever will. Before someone throws out tatar, he is deeper on the depth chart with less talent than Nyquist.

Wow. I don't understand some on here. Let's think with our heads and not our hearts for a minute. Ryan O is a 21 year old C, 6-0/200 that has played 3 full seasons in the NHL. Got better each year and had 55 points last year. He is at least a #2 C and could be a #1. he is developing into a 80+ point per season guy. He is an upgrade over Filppula who is a UFA this summer. At worst he would be the 3rd best forward on our team. Maybe the best on our team in a year or 2. This is a guy that can play for another 12 years. That being said, any F that they want and a 2nd round pick, DONE! No expections. this is a future cornerstone type of a player. Will it happen? Nah, makes way way to much sense.

Fill isn't going to get 5-6 million per year? Are you nuts? Q just got 3.5 million! Hell he makes 4 million now. if brunner keeps playing like he has, he will go well above 3 million. So again, there is no FA money to spend. yes dats is playing well. That is why he has value. That is why he can get you 2-3 nhl ready players. Which btw we need. Between now and the end of next season the following are all UFA's: bert, Sammy, filppula, miller, cleary, Ericsson, Huskins, Brunner, DATSYUK, White, Quincey, Colavacio, Eaves, and Howard. Emmerton, Mursak, Smith, Kindl, and Lashoff are all RFA's. We don't have enough money to reisgn them all as it is. Some need to go anyway. Over the next 1.5 years the numbers at GR that are ready to play just are not there. New blood is needed asap. if you can't see this, I am sorry you are blind. As for guys producing or not producing at GR, please don't waste our time quoting their numbers. It means nothing. Yes a guy like tatar can score in the AHL. he will not be able to in the NHL. To small, to slow, and isn't that skilled. yes i watch the Griffins play. several times per year. Just to compare, Emmerton adn Mursak scored at GR as well. How are they doing in the NHL? Abby scored at a pretty good clip as well. There are a few checkers like Sheahan that can fill the 3rd/4th lines. But that is all we have ready. There are no big time scorers coming anytime soon. That is the problem. Everyone is assuming that datsyuk will resign after nxt season and continue to produce. What if he don't? we are screwed. same with Howard this year. he is in the drivers seat. he could push for 7+ million and we have to pay it. There is nothign in the system to replace him, and all UFA's are far worse than he is. There are those that like to trot out the "chicken little" insult. But they are not facing the reality of what the RW's are facing. Kinda like last summer when so many were convinced that parise adn Sutar were coming here, because after all we are the Red Wings. Didn't work did it. So instead we get Colo-hurt yet again and sammy-hurt yet again. wasting another 5.5 million that could have been spent elsewhere. Yes tootoo is a nice pick up-still shocked the Holland signed him. But we could have done that move reguardless, and needed to.

The same as I felt before the season. We are going to end up around .500 and finish anywhere from 7th to 10th in the west. In our first 24 games, we play 15 at home. The second half is going to be brutal. 15 of 24 on the road, while playing 3 or 4 games every week. With a team that is old and small, we will continue to have injury issues. Then we face another 1st round PO loss.

Ok, clearly you didn't read what I posted. I already have included lashoof, Sheahan, and Nyquist on the team. Ferraro is nothing, Andersson is a 12th through 14th F at best, and tatar is nothing more than a AHL forward. None of those guys is capable of posting a 40 point season in the NHL. Not one. You amy beleive otherwise, which is fine. But on this one I am right. So again, there is nothing to bring up. Cleary and Miller are UFA's. Emmerton and Mursak are RFA IIRC. That could be 4 more holes already, and we have done nothing to improve the team. At best it is a net neutral thing. But go sign UFA's. Again, with what money. We have 19 million to spend this off season, without trades or buyouts. But we also have to resign Howard 5-6 million, Filppula 5-6 million, and Brunner 3 million +. That basicly wipes out our entire FA budget. Now we could keep datsyuk and let Filppula walk. But why would you do that? Fil put up equal numbers to dat and is 6 years younger. Might be able to gt him cheaper as well. If you let Fil walk, then we get nothing. At least dat brings 2-3 NHL ready players back. BTW, the 29 other teams in the NHL had a chance to sign Q last summer, and all passed on him. Now you think some teamis willing to give up something to get him? Very unlikely. But again, if we can trade him, DO IT! I would rather trade guys than cut them. We get zero from a cut. I don't care if we pick up just 7th rd picks. There is still a chance with those.

Great game tonight. These are the games we have to win. Dallas is an average/below average team, and they are tired. Beating teams like this at home is a most if we are to make the payoffs.

Yes! A fight to start the game! Go Wings!

Quincey? No way. Franzen, very small chance. Which if anyone wants him, they can have him. Here is the thing about his bad contract. Even if he retires tomorrow, he is a cap hit for 8 more years. If we trade him or buy him out, no more cap hit. That is the only way to escape the 4 million per year cap hit. Nice to see all the deep and insightfull posts. For those that advacate keeping datsyuk, franzen and the like, I poss you the question: how do we get better then? By keeping those contracts, and resigning the guys we should keep there isn't any money for FA's. There are also no other prospects ready in the system to replace what we lose. Don't let your fandom blind you to the realities we face. last thing, no need to be rude. if you don't like what I think, that is fine. No need to be immature about it.

I am fine with playing Kindl. he needs to play so we knwo if he has a future with us or not. Q should be on the bench though, not lashoff. Once White comes back healthy and no further injuries, buyout quincey. it was a mistake to resign him. Time to man up and admit it, so we all can move on.

Now, I took the long way through the team. There is was a reason(s) for it. First, I am not one that goes around and says "trade him" everytime someone makes a mistake. Nor do I beleive everyone is a HOFer just becasue they had 1 or 2 good games. There is far more to things than that. So let's talk about how we can fill the holes on the team. For the 2013/2014 season I see 4 holes. 2 forwards and 2 Dmen. Some may argue for keeping Datsyuk and Ericsson. if we do, we have 2 fewer holes that is true. But at that point we have nothing to trade of value. There are no other combinations of player/players that we can put together, without creating more holes and get something back in return of value. Some also would argue draft and build through the draft. That is a good idea for 3 years down the road. I have already brought up the only close to NHL ready prospects we have. Smith, lashoff, sheahan, and nyquist are on the team. There is nothing else at GR or in our system ready and talented enough to be in Detroit next fall. So that really isn't an option. That only leaves 2 options left: trades and FA. So what happens if we hang onto Datsyuk and Ericsson, and none of the big name FA's sign with us? We still have 2 holes. Ok, keep Franzen. if we do that, we don't have enough money to go into the FA market in the first place. At this point we are talking about having the same team in 2013/2014 that we have now! I don't know about most of you, but that scares me. Ok so we stand pat for one more year. hang onto Franzen, Datsyuk and Ericsson. That brings us to the summer of 2014 when Ericsson and datsyuk are both UFA's. Plus bert, sammy, and colo (good thing) all leave. Now we are faced with 3 holes in the forward line (assuming we still have franzen and missed the chance to buy him out) and 2 on the blue line. Ok fill from within! Sorry but it ain't happening. baring some great unforseen developments, there isn't going to be much ready to step in as top 6 forwards or top 4 Dmen for next season either. There just isn't much in terms of high skilled fully developed prospects in our system. yes i am sure there will be a pleasant surprise. But 5 of those? No going to happen. Now for 2014 we still would have some money to spend on UFA's. Dat-6.7 million, Big E-3.2 million, Colo-2.5 million, Sammy-3 million, bert-2 million. That is about 15 million or so. A nice little sum to be sure. But again, we then find ourselves in a positions of hoping someone (s) choose to play for us. To try and fill 5 major needs all through FA is risky as hell. 1 hole per year-ok that makes sense. But 5 all at one time? No way. Well then resign datsyuk and Ericsson. Ok we could. That reduces the number of holes by 2, but it will also eat up almost all of the money for FA's. Does anyone expect either of those guys to come back for the same or less money? I don't. Datsyuk will get at least 7-if he has anytype of decent year next year, and if E also plays well he will get 5 million. That just ate up 12 of the 15, leaving about 3 million left to spend. Not enough to get any difference maker in FA. The point of that is/was, we may not have a choice but to trade datsyuk and Ericsson as well as buyout Franzen and Q. If we do not do so, we are going to be stuck with the same basic team for 2.5 more seasons. Now if we do that, we will not become a 25 win team. we will stay in the 7th-10th spot in the western confernce each year. Just good enough to keep things interesting and maybe our playoff streak alive, but not good enough to draft the true difference makers available via the draft each year. Now maybe we have a hidden gem or 2. Could be. No one knows how any of our prospects will turn out. They could all flame out or we could have some studs. For most it is far to early to really know one way or the other. But only trying to build via the draft is in many ways riskier than doing it through FA. At least with FA's you know they can produce. You have a resonable expectation of numbers and performence. With propects it is nothing more than hope. You can put together the worlds best development system, have the best scouts, and have great support, but none of that makes any prospect a sure thing. So after Sheahan and Nyquist come up to stay, we may very well have a 2-4 year gap before the next wave of guys are ready. This is the price we are going to pay for all the trades we made to stay at the top for so long of a time. That was a good thing. But it is also the past. All of that being said, it leads me to beleive we don't have much choice in what to do. We have to move datsyuk and ericsson, and we have to bugy out franzen and Q, while the chance to do so is still there. The way I look at things that means we have 7 holes to fill between the next 2 off seasons. 4 this year and 3 next. If we can land 1 good FA each summer, that fills 2 holes leaving 5 to fill. Let's hope we have a surprise or 2 on the development side. That leaves 3 or 4 holes open, with 2 guys to trade. One of the major advantages to trading a guy like datsyuk is, he is good enough to get 2 or 3 top line young players. Guys that have made it to the NHL and could be solid players if not stars in 2-3 years from now. Ericsson should be able to get at least 1 good young player, maybe 2. There also is one or 2 guys at GR that could be added to a package to improve things. We have 2 decent young goalies, that are largely blocked if Howard is resigned. Almquist could have some value and maybe tatar.

I wrote, very clearly, that last year NJD and LAK were 2 of the best defensive teams. Whcih is what helped them win the SC. You said they were not. Now I have pointed it out and proven my point, and you ask if I am following?????

So, now what do I see as the 2013/2014 RW's? 1st line: hole-Z-Sammy 2nd line: Bert-Fil-hole 3rd line: Nyquist-Abby-Brunner 4th line: Sheahan-Helm-TooToo spare forwards: Emmerton and Mursak The D: 1st pair: Kronwall-hole 2nd pair: Smith-hole 3rd pair: lashoff-kindl 7th D: colo G: Howard and Gus Leaving datsyuk and ericsson as trade bait and 11-14 million to spend on UFA's. The 2014/2015 team looks like this: 1st: hole-Z-hole 2nd: hole-Fil-hole 3rd: Nyquist-abby-Brunner 4th: Sheahan-Helm-TooToo spare forwards: Emmerton and Mursak D: 1st: Kronwall-hole 2nd: Smith-hole 3rd: lashoff-hole 7th D: Kindl Goalies are the same. maybe 7 million to spend, cap is rumored to be going down to 62 million for this season.

Hey we agree on something. This thread-I am as guitly as anyone, got derailed...... LOL

Just for reference, NJD was #1 in PK last year and the LAK were #4. That is good defense. in todays game, with all of the penalties called, the PK is even more important than ever.

Yes Defensive squads. That includes the G and is the most important part of the PK. Howard has been great. Not our issue. The problem lies in front of him.

Lol. The RW's own website has him listed at 156 pounds! http://redwings.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8475714 BTW, for those throwing out igor, you realize that was almost 20 years ago now. he was considered small then.

Now the D. We have several good young Dmen. But all are LH shots. It does matter that you have RH shots. This becomes really important on the PP when you need the one timer from the point. This is part of why Sammy and Brunner are playing there. Smith, Lashoff, Kindl and Kronwall would be a good 4 to build off of. There is good size, puck handling, and enough grit there to be good. Now we need to find 2, prefer 3 RH shooters to go along with them. Only Kronwall is over 30, but he is signed through the 2019 season. That leaves Ericsson-28 and a UFA after next season as possible trade bait. Kronwall might get us more, but he has a full NTC for 3 more seasons, and then can only go to 10 teams that he provides a list for. Colo is signed for one more year and can sit on the bench, and we can hope he doesn't get hurt. White and Huskins are UFA's after the season, so there are spots open. Cap. We currently have about 19 million to spend this summer. But we should resign Filppula and have to resign Howard. *Edit* I forgot brunner. We need to resign him as well. between the 3 of them we are most likely going to shell out 14-16 million. Leaving 3-6 million to spend to resign our RFA's and sign UFA's. if we buyout Frnazen and Q, which we should we can add another 7.8 million to spend. That means after resigning Fil and Howie we have 11-14 million to use on UFA's. Of course after next year, we have more money to spend and a couple more holes to fill. Bert and sammy are both gone so is Colo, freeing up another 7.5 million. We also have to keep in mind that for the 2014/2015 season the cap is rumored to go down to 62 million. Right now we don't have enough money to sign 1 big name UFA without buying out some guys and/or making some trades to move salary. Now, after we let most of our UFA's walk, and we have bought out Franzen and Q, and we have resigned Fil, brunner, and Howie, we are left with 2 holes at the F positions, and 2 holes on the D. But we have 11-14 million to spend and 2 guys to trade: Datsyuk and Ericsson. of course moving Dat and E also frees up additional cash to spend on UFA's down the road. So, what UFA's are going to be out there? Who knows. as of today Getzlef, Perry, Horton, Clarkson, and Clowe are pending. How many make it and walk? Not sure. all of them could be helpfull to our retooling efforts. But, as we saw last year, when it comes to free agency, there are no sure things.

So goalies are now not part of the D? Interesting..... These 2 groups are better than ours. A Lot better.

Now before I would think about making a deal, i would lay out our lines-with 2 small changes. 1st: bert-dat-fil that line has 1 big guy, and 2 great play makers. it is missing a good RH shot. 2nd: the Swed line: franzen-Z-sammy. 2 bigger guys-even if they don't play like it, a good play maker and a good RH shot. 3rd line: we have lacked O from our 3rd line for several years. So let's fix it: Nyquist-Abby-brunner. good play maker, good RH shooter, and Abby for some size and grit. 4th line: Sheahan (if his drinking issues are behind him)-Helm-TooToo. Speed and grit with some size and toughness to it. of course everyone has to be healthy. The rest of our forwards-doesn't really matter. Cleary and Miller are UFA's this summer, eaves is a journeyman, Emmerton and Mursak are fillers at best. The D. 1st pair: kronwall and Ericsson 2nd pair: Smith and Lashoff 3rd pair: Kindl and Q. Huskins and White are UFA's this summer and Colo is always hurt. The bid issue here is, only White is a RH shot. Now, where do we upgrade? On the top 2 lines we need 4 new forwards over the next 2 years. Of those 6 guys only Filppula is under 30, and he is a UFA this summer. On D we need at least 2 RH shooting Dmen to balance things out.Of our current D I would keep either Kronwall or ericsson-not both, Smith, Lashoff, and Kindl. So here is the list of players/positions to move or be replaced. Bert. At 37 he has very little if any trade value. we might be able to get a low round draft pick froma PO bound team. Datsyuk. he has a lot of trade value. he is already 34 and a UFA after next season. Filppula. 28, good puck handler and a UFA this summer. Could have some value in trade, or resign him as to be our second line C. Franzen. No value and bad long term contract. Buy him out. Zetterberg. The new captian. I would hold on to him unless completely overwhelmed by a trade offer. sammy. 36 and sign for another year with a NTC. Boy was this a bad idea. That means 3 of the 6 stay for another year at least. Maybe 4 stay. This leaves holes on the wings. Z and Fil at C, with sammy and maybe bert as 2 of the 4 wingers.

In the first 5 games we have all seen what this team is. Some talent left, but it is getting old and injury prone. Not enough energy on most nights-another byproduct of the age of the team. yes we will have some great nights like the Minny game and some really abd nights like the Blues game. But after 5 games our record shows what we are: a .500 team. On the plus side, Howard has been awesome! get him resigned Holland! we can't mess around with him. Helm when out there was great, and Abby has been solid. TooToo looks like a good pickup. brunner looks good to date as well. still rough in his own end, but that will get better. Z and dats still look good. Not elite anymore but still very good. Filppula looks lost to date. Not sure why. Most of the rest of the forwards look AHL caliber. D has been rough, but as the pairs work together game after game, that should improve.

I just can't get excited about a 5-10/160 C.

Ya because NJD and the LAK allowed tons of goals....... 2 of the best defensive clubs. If you can ONLY be good at one, D is better than O. The best are good at both. But we are not the best anymore.

The other thing to keep in mind is, our lack of quality depth. When we were at our best we rolled 4 quality lines and had 3 good/great D pairs. Our stars played less 5 on 5 hockey and thus were fresh to help on the PK and PP. That isn't the case anymore either. Right now, if we can just get one going good, I would be happy. D wins championships, so get the PK right.