Richdg

I wish we had some bigger Helm's. Imagine Helm at 6-2/210......... That is what we need about 5 of..............

Oh those lovable Red Wings. Let's be honest, these first 3 games have been really hard to watch. We as wingnuts have been spoiled over the last 20 years. But, as always happens with dynasty's, we held the same hand for far to long. There is no doubt that moving proven players that help you win championships is hard to do. But we should have done just that. But that is water under the bridge. The other by product of our success is bad drafts. We have a weak farm system. Most of the guys with NHL talent are either here-thanks to the injuries or are 2+ years away. The owrse part is, we are not bad enough to draft in the top 5. IMHO we will end up around 15-just making the PO's this year, and thus missing out on the top end talent that could be in Detroit within a year. So yes, we get to add some more young talent in this years draft, but again most of it is 3+ years away. So back to the top. We will get worse before we get better. For many of us this will be a hard jagged pill to swallow. But we don't have a lot of choice. Now is it possible we have one of those wonderfull hot streaks were we win 10 out of 12 games? yes. But we also could have a bad streak where we lose 10 out of 12 as well. In fact, neither would surprise me... So the real question, where do we go from here? This is what I would do: 1. Let it be known to the rest of the NHL that we are sellers. Everyone is available, for the right price of course. The hard part is, we don't have much in terms of value to get good young talnet back in return. Only 4 guys would fetch much: Z, Dat, Kronwall, and Howard. The only one of that group I wouldn't want to move is Howard, but he is a UFA after the season, so if the price is right, even he could go. 2. My goal in all trades is 3 fold: clear out cap space, pick up young talent, and add draft picks. Capgeek says we have 45 million spent for next season with a 13/14 cap of 64 million. Leaving 19 million to spend. I would prefer to resign Howard-we have nothing else ready to take his place and good G's are hard to find. That will eat up around 5 million to resign him. Leaving us with about 14 million to spend. The goal should be to get to 20+ million to spend in FA after we resign Howard. 3. We have 2 buyouts that we can use, that will not effect the cap. If we can't trade them away, I use the buyouts on Quincey and Franzen. That would give us another 7.7 million to spend. 4. If I am able to trade away datsyuk, then I would resign Filppula. Dat makes about 6.7 million per year and does have trade value. Filppula-who is 7 years younger is a UFA. Per the new CBA, resigning your current players allows you to go to a 8 year contract. Creating a chance for a lower cap hit. Yes, that would mean Filppula is 36 when his contract expires, or 1 year older than datsyuk is now. If the choice is 6 years @ 5 million per or 8 years @ 4 million per, go with the later. That would free up another 2.7 million after moving Dat. 5. If you take a long look at the RW's from top to bottom, you see several positions with glaring holes. For example, we have 0 big RH shooting RW's in the organization. Every RW is small or is a LH shot. We have the same issue on D, only 4 RH Dmen in the organization after this season. Most of which haven't played a single pro hockey game. The closest would be Nicastro, but he is hardly playing for the Griffins. The 3rd area that we are lacking in, is big C's. Unless you count Abdelkader as a C, we just don't have many over 6ft tall. 6. 13/14 Free Agency. We saw how well this worked last year, but this year some things could be different. There are several big under 30 forwards coming up on their UFA years. Most of which are canadians from Onterio. Meaning we are close to their homes. We also will have a nice pile of cash to spend. As of today, we have about 14 million to spend. Buyouts to Q and Franzen adds another 7.7 million to that total. That means we could sign 3 high end UFA's for 7 million per year. If we are able to move guys like Calaicovo, Eaves, bert, and sammy (please someone take them!) that would free up another 8.5+ million to add 1 or 2 more guys to fill some holes. The one glearing position of weakness in this years FA class in RH Dmen under 30. Just are not many available, as in none. 7. As for this years draft, That is my one focus, quality players that are RH shots. be they C's, RW's, or Dmen. For those that have never played, yes the hand of the shooter/passer does matter. It matters a lot. The half a second a guy has to spend turning to shoot or pass makes a huge difference. Now I am sure some will jump up and down about trading dat or cutting this guy or that. So be it. But and here is the thought. Are we going to win the SC with Dat over the next 2 years? I would bet the house on no. So let's move him. I would bet a forward heavy team with few quality C's like the rangers would love to have him. They have several big young fowards and RH Dmen that would fit us. Same with the Devils. I am sure there are more that are in the same boat. But at the end of the day, the worse thing we can do is to stand pat and hope for something better out of the same parts. It just isn't going to happen.

Kornwall isn't a number 1 Dman now. he is a second pair guy that is being forced to play above his level. Most need to understand that Lidstrom and Chelios were the exception, not the rule. It is very rare for athletes in any sport to be playing at a high level in the late 30's. To expect these 3 to do it is folly. 1 maybe. All 3? no way.

Trust me I understand. No one wnats to move fan favorites that helped you win multiple cups. But no one wants to have 60 point seasons either. Some of us lived through the Dead Wings era and still have nightmares about it. The RW's were the joke of the NHL. Most hockey fans in Michigan were following the Isles or the Oilers. But these are the type of tough decisions that Holland is going to have to make. we don't have anyone in our system able to put up 80 points. Not sure if there are any 60 point guys either. Hanging onto guys like Dat, Z, Kronwall is a deminising returns thing. They are not going to get better at this point in time. Only worse. Their numbers have been dropping for the last 5 years. datsyuk is a UFA after next season. Do you resign him at 35/36 and how much money do you spend? Will he stay for 4 million or less? Doubtfull. Do you let Filppula walk? He is a UFA this year and only 28. Who will be better in 5 years? 39 year old datsyuk or 33 year old Filppula? Yes this stuff is tough. But these are the things we have to do so that come the 2015 season we are ready for another run. That gives us 3 drafts and 3 UFA periods, plus trades. We have enough talent for the 3rd and 4th lines, 3 D pair and Goalie-if we get Howard resigned. That means we need to find 10 guys over the next 2.5 seasons. Not that hard of a task. One that can be done, and is much easier if we make a few "smart" trades.

guess not. I take words at face value. "Things that are better than the Wings ST's"..... It is a long list......

We are going to struggle on both untill we get some more talent. Let me explain. 10 years ago we had a bunch of good fast 3/4th line guys. Draper, maltby, etc..... They had the speed to attack the other teams PP. We have very few guys that have that type of speed. Even our "stars" don't have that type of speed. helm and Abby are the only ones that I would consider fast, and Abby doesn't use it enough. On ST we lack shooters and front of net guys. Most euro's are pass first players. In europe C's are not shooters. They are passers and defensive guys. Most C's in europe play high, almost a 3rd Dman. As for front of net guys, only 2 have the talent to do it: Bert and franzen. Bert is always hurt and has abd back. Franzen lacks toughness, and is also one of our better shooters-when he wants to be. We as fans need to get used to not being in the top 10 on ST's. We simply don't have the talent anymore. We are an old middle of the road team. As for those complaining about penalties, stop. if the refs put the whistles away, we are going to get mugged and abused. Penalties help us. If you doubt that, go back and rewatch the PO series vs nashville from last year.

Milk and oreos.....

Also, you were wrong about Helm not getting ready. As the news here in Michigan has talked about, Helm was/is still dealing with his knee issues from last march. He still isn't 100%. Which-just a guess, is what is effecting his back. Changed his skating style to be able to play. Common thing for most athletes. you over correct for the injury. Just my guess.

Cause top flight FA's have been flocking to detroit over the last 5 years. name one please........... Hossa was 08 already......

Holland isn't going anywhere. He could however "retire" as GM. In fact I am surprised he didn't when nicky retired. Holland will stay on as Pres and let Nill or whoever run the day to day stuff and make all the big decisions. Kind a like Jimmy D did.

Is english your second langauge? You clearly didn't read what I wrote. I wrote "he MIGHT be a guy". Not is, was etc.... But he does get hurt alot. Now that doesn't mean he misses the game. He does play hurt, unlike some others on this team. But at his size and with his style injuries will always be there for him.

Yes Brunner can skate, has speed and can shoot. But and this is key. Once the league adjusts to him and starts to key on him, will he be able to handle the physical play? We don't know. Most Euros find some tuff sleading once they start getting knocked around. Hopefully he adjusts to the NA game and does well. We need some young talent to step up.

Insert the standard "small fast forward problem" here. I like Helm, but guys can't help if they are always in the training room. Due to his size and style of play, he might be a guy that misses 30% of the games every year. Misses or is playing hurt....

Clinging to yesterday will destroy this team. It has been 5 years since we won the Cup. Last 3 years we lost in the second round twice and the first round last year. 5 years from now there is a strong chance that none of Kronwall, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg will even be in the league. All will be in their late 30's. Even if we find 8-12 prospects that work out, none of these guys will be key to anything. If/when they retire we get zero, zip nada for them. All 3 have value today, so if the deal is right, make it.

Great agme tonight. We own the Wild and have for some time. Glad to see that continue. A couple of days off, several good practices and we look better. The D looked a lot better, which will happen as guys get used to playing with each other. Even Quincey had a good game. We were able to saty out of the box for most of the second half of the game, which heped a ton. back to .500, can we get above that mark? We have to. 15 of our first 24 are at home. The second half of the season will be brutal.

NJ needs O. For the right deal anyone can be moved. We need RH Dmen in the worst way. Young ones at that....

Only if Howard is resigned. He is a UFA after this year. Really? Shanahan, Maltby, Draper, Chelios, Vernon, Hossa, Rafalski, etc......................... It was a 50-50 mix of draftee and FA's/trades.

Bingo. The question is "what does the leadership do about it?" There are only so many answers to that question. We either stand pat, hope for some young guys to develop quickly and a fountain of youth is discovered, or we make trades and sign FA's. It really is only those 2 options. Option 1 scars the hell out of me. We will be right back in the late 70's and early 80's again, after guys like Howe, Redmond, Delveccio, sawchuck, etc...... all left with nothing to replace them. 20 win seasons are not fun. Even in a 48 game schedule....

You don't need to watch 30 games to know and understand that the RW's are: 1. old 2. small 3. slow 4. have declining skills 5. injury prone. All of which was true before the season, is true now, and will be true throughout the season, baring trade. Those 5 things together=average to poor team. PS the other teams you mention are all bigger, younger, stronger, faster, equal or better skill and healthy. Those items combined = good to great team.

fayne would be a great pick up if we could swing it. Big young RH shot Dmen. American to boot! But I doubt that even would cross Holland's mind.....

Some more: 6. I am a guy that likes balance on a team. I don't want the "BroadStreet bullies'. Nor do i like a team of Hudler's.... You dress 12 forwards every game. In an ideal world 6 of those forwards should be big physical guys and 6 smaller speed/skill guys. Those 12 should also be equal RH and LH shooters. Then even more ideal you would have 3 big RH shots, 3 big LH shots, 3 RH smaller speed/skill guys, and 3 LH smaller speed/skill guys. Then you can mix and match up as needed. same thing on D. the 6 Dmen should always be 3 RH shots and 3 LH shots. With a mix of size, speed, skill, strength and grit.

Yes that was true.... before the cap. The 2 things that attract players are winning and money. But yet this past season we where not able to get the top UFA's. In fact it has been 6? years since we were able to get one of the top UFA's in the market. Hossa was the last real big timer that I remember. The rest of our signings have been second teir types. Another thing to keep in mind is under the new CBA the max for resigning a FA is 8 years vs only 7 years for signing some other teams UFA. That will do 2 things: 1. increase the trade value for UFA's-they can get longer contracts and more money by resigning 2. increase trades. Expect this to be explioted by teams.

Some more thoughts. 1. In the thousands of threads that people make about trades (all fantasy i know) the number 1 comeback is: "why would anyone want our junk". Ok, why would we want to keep it? If you can move a guy that is over 30 for a mid round pick, you do it. A 4th rounder for samualsson? hell yes! 2. Every team goes through peaks and valleys. We have been riding high for 20 years. We will be in a valley for the next 3-5 years depending on future moves. Z-33 and dat-35 are not going to get better over the next 3-5 years. their numbers have been dropping for 5 years and will continue to do so. Every year their numbers go down 4-7 points. Both were once good for 90 points per year, now they are in the 70 point range going going south. Where will they be 3-5 years from now when they are 40 or close to it? What value will they have then? Do any players take cuts in their salaries? 3. Those that like to through out "panic" are not reading or understanding what I wrote. I clearly said we will be fighting for the PO's-7th, 8th, or 9th, thus getting a pick around 15th in the upcoming draft. That isn't panic, that is spot on with what the vast majority of fans and media talking heads expect from the RW this year. But and this is key, we will only get worse over the next few years. guys over 30 don't get better. All of our "stars" are over 30, and there is no future stars in the system that will be ready over the next 2-3 seasons. 4. To get something of value, you have to give something of value. No this isn't a video game-which I don't play or even own a game system. To old for that myself. So if we want to trade for some young prospect that could be a future star, we have to have value to get him. For example-only and example so chill out, if we want a guy like Kreider it will take a datsyuk plus to get him. But if that deal was possible, we need to do it. if we don't and wait to build only through the draft, we are heading for several seasons of only 20 wins. Those of us that followed the RW's in the late 70's and early 80's remeber those wonderfull times. Yuck! 5. Those that try to defend franzen are lost. yes he can score 25-35 goals. But that is akin to when Rob deer played for the Tigers. yes he hit 30 HR per year, but he also struckout 200+ times per year, played crappy D, and hit below the mendoza line. One stat does not a good player make. Worse part is of the 30 franzen can score, 15 will come during a 20 game stretch when he is on fire and motivated.

Nope, fact.

Mr. I cares about winning. Not the bank account. If you have followed the RW's at all, you would know that. fact is Franzen is getting his money no matter what. Period. It is a sunk cost. We do have a chance to "fix" the mistake, free up the cap room, and replace a poor player/players. Same with Quincey. But hey, everything is fine......... That is way we get further and further from the cup every year. Doing the same thing year after year and expecting a different result is stupid.