Richdg

That is just laughable. Our top 6 forwards: datsyuk, Z, Franzen, Burt, Filppula, and Hudler had a grand total of 6 goals in 5 games. 6!!!!!! If that is the best those 6 are going to do we are screwed! Heck Hudler had 2 and Filppula had 2. So for the real big money guys: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Burt, and franzen it is even worse. Those 4 combined for 2 goals in 5 games. These are guys that should score about every 3rd game. In a 5 game series their career averages show they should have scored 8-10 goals as a group. This is why we lost. There is no debate about it.

I agree, and our top 2 lines didn't score. It is the why that there is discusion. Where they tired? They were not hurt, so why? yes we can disagree on the reasons. BTW.... Z, Franzen, and Filppula are scoring at the WC's. Datsyuk is not. True, it has only been 4 games. But the others are all better than a point per game. Datsyuk has 1 point in 4 games.

One other thing to keep in mind. This year the FA class is not deep. Most of the talent-unless it gets resigned over the next 6 weeks is on the D. next years FA class-again as of today pending future signings is very strong with big young forwards. This will be a factor in what we do. There are several teams with 2+ big young star forwards hitting FA next season. Pitt-Crosby and Staal, the Ducks with Perry and getslaz (spelling) are 2 examples of this. They MAY-key word, not be able to keep both. Phones should be ringing....

1. I should ask if you or anyone else have played/coached etc...... doesn't belong here or any other forum. It in fact doesn't matter, becasue all we are doing is sharing opinions. If you were offended, I am sorry. 2. Would we like a team with 18 AS on it? yes we would. But would a guy like parise come here to play on the 3rd line? No. Nor would any other top player. Now why did I ask the question? You have to have a deep and balanced roster, I understand that. but you are not going to spend 5 million per year on 3rd line guys. In the SC era, you can't. So we are going to move our young guys that have just started their careers and we hope are our future? maybe. But I would bet good money that the 3rd and 4th lines this fall will be made up of guys on the roster. You can just about name who they are: helm, Abdelkater, Emmerton, maursk, Miller, Cleary (this is a demotion for him), Sheahan, eaves-if healthy, etc..... That is 8 right there. 8 roster spots, so works out nicely. Yes a guy like Jones could come in and help out. We agree on that. But even with him, that is not a major change. That will bring us back to the top 2 lines. In the end this is where the money is, the talent is/was, and the production needs to come from. Tech. all 6 spots are currently filled. Burt, franzen, Z, D, filppula, and Nyquist. I would love to upgrade over Nyquist and Filppula. Nyquist could slide down to the 3rd line, and open a spot. No problem. Now the debate and opinions begin. How do we fill the spot? What moves can be made via trade? Who is going to stand in front of the net? Who is going to make the other teams D pay in the corners? In the end, these are the questions. Keep in mind, the only trade options we have are franzen (no problem if he goes), Filppula-I hope he goes, and Z-last option unless it is a superstar. 3. The D is much easier to figure out. we will add 1 maybe 2 depending on what Lidstrom does. it really is that simple. The only real question is do we go all in on one guy-Suter? Or go for guys like Wideman (Rh shot), Garrison, and carle. Anyone of the 4 would be fine by me.

Have you ever played the game? it is all about space and time. Space and time allows you to score. take away space and time and the other time doesn't score. yes we had shots. very few were quality shots. Most where the flip it at the net and hope type. Not quality scoring chances. Yes we spent a ton of time on the PK. That is what happens when you get out skated, which we were. Now all of our stars where out performed. All were healthy. This should be a big giant warning sign to you, and I hope Holland, which I beleive it is. As I quoted before, babcock said it best: "we are going in the wrong direction".

That is true this year. last year Howard had the better year. Like Is said, whoever is playing best during the 13/14 season will start. yes Miller could bounce back. But he is also over 30 and could go the other way. We are after all talking about something 1.5 years from now. We have now idea how each guy will be playing or if there will be any injuries, or if some one else steps up. All can/will happen. I did notice that abdelkater is centering the 3rd line this year at the WC's. True not all of our top players are there, but C is a little thinner than the wings are for team USA.

Eaves was out all year. He wasn't a problem being gone. If it really was a major issue Holland would have picked someone up at the deadline. he didn't. tells you all you need to know. As for Z and Datsyk, they kill penalties all year long. They have their entire careers. This is not a new thing. Yes having Helm might have added a goal or 2 from the bottom 2 lines. But guess what, he is coming back, so not an issue. The real issue remains the top 2 lines. franzen, Z and datsyk didn't score. neither did Burt or Franzen. Filppula never does. Hommer didn't. Hudler didn't. 2 of them are already gone. 2 can't be moved. One other issue that will be new for us this hear, is no front of the net guy anymore. Hommer-maybe the best ever at it is gone. Neither Franzen nor Burt are any good at it, nor is Parise btw. But all of those guys were healthy, and they didn't do their jobs. The part we don't know is, is this the new norm or just a one off thing? Go back and re=watch the palyoff series. Yes it is painfull....... But none of these guys could create any space to score. Without space, you don't have time. Without time, you rarely score.

No. Well maybe..... Both have had a couple very good seasons. Quick is having a great PO run right now, so that will help him. It will come down to who is having the better season in 13/14 between these 2. Miller will most likely be third by that point.

But it isn't a strainght up question. Suter and Widmen have very similier numbers. Suter gets more pub becasue he is an american and is the son of a HOF. But if the question becomes do I sign wideman for5 million per year or Suter for 7.5 million per year, I take Wideman every time. Allows meto speed in other places and make the team deeper and better overall. This was the first timein years that Datsyk, Z and franzen were all healthy going intothe playoffs. yes helm was out. But D wasn't our problem. Scoring was. How does the 3rd line checking center being out hurt Z, datsyk, and Franzen? It didn't. All of which are permier scorers. 30+ goal per season guys. They didn't score, becassue they didn't have room. room is created by a big forward on their lines opening space for them. That is what didn't happen,and why we lost to a worse team in 5 games. But enough with the past. time to look towards 2012/2013.

Yes. that is why i mentioned Wideman. he is 29 and a UFA. If we are only taking 1 FA Dman, he is actually a better fit for us. Having 2 RH shooters on the blueline gives us 2 very nice pairs on the PP. If Nicky hangs them up, then sign another one out of the Suter, Carle, and garrison group. Now you would have the pairs of: Kronwall and white (LH and RH), Wideman and Nicky/Suter/Carle/Garrison (Rh and LH), Smith or Quincy and Erickson (all LH) and Kindl as the 7th. Or some version of this. if Nicky retires, then all of the D are 31 and under in age. That would be a group we could keep together for the next 4-6 years. Solves the blueline long term.

That is the problem we are all in right now. we don't know the actual numbers yet. cap geek says 64.3 million for a cap number and 20 million to spend. Jimmy D says 70, which would give us more. Untill we know actual numbers it is all therory. So let's juts leave it as that.

Trying to predict what will happen with datsyk in 2 or 3 years is tough to do. Other than the fact he will be 36 and a UFA. if his numbers continue to slide....who knows. Adding a scorer doesn't solve our problems. We have scorers. But in the playoffs, without space to work, they didn't score. It wasn't like we were unhealthy. This year was the first year in several that we entered the playoffs healthy-in a very general sense. But no one scored. Also our 3rd/4th lines are about set. we have a bunch of guys that can and will play there. It isour top2 lines where the issues lay.

Ok back to this off season and some names. What happens if everyone favorites are gone? if they don't come here? Parise and Suter have signed some place else? There are other names out there that can and will help. We still need to add grit up front. I have mentioned Jones before. if we are going for one last hurrah, Doan could make sense. But there are a few others. if we want a real gritty forward that also scores, look at P A Parenteu from the Isles. Think Kirk maltby but with better offense. If true toughness is the goal/need a guy like McLeod of Col. is about as tough as they get. On the blue line there are several others besides Suter. I mentioned Carle before. 2 others to look at are Wideman of the caps-would add a 2nd RH shot to our blueline, and garrison of the Panthers. IIRC he lead all D with goals scored. very good shooter and has good size/mobility.

Think about what you just said. make it but not stars. We are losing stars. If we are not going to have stars to replace them with............ But he also made a strong indication that 2 of the guys are supposed to be steals on the scale of Datsyk. So yes he did talk about guys becoming stars.

I will take that bet. Of all the young guys ypu have mentioned, fwer than 2 will ever turn out to be stars.

This is a math question, not a Lidstrom question. The current rumors are a cap around 70 million. We will have-again according to rumors about 20 million to spend. 2 top UFA's are going to cost somewhere between 12 and 15 million. helm and Abdelkater will add another 3-4 million to the total. That means 15-19 million spent before we talk about Lidstrom. At somepoint we also need to extend Howard, who is a UFA after next season. Now add in Quincy-who should be resigned, he will cost 1.5 to 2 million. Yes I understand the emotion and love for Nicky. But in many ways the best thing for the organization he can do, it to retire, and then funnel all the top swedish prospects to us through his team. If Nicky returns and is earning more than 4 million, you can kiss the dreams of parise and Suter goodbye. There isn't enough money to get them all resigned/signed. Most of the rumors out there have Parise and Suter each getting 7.5+ million per season. Good thing there are other options, that will cost less to go after. Which in the end what I expect to happen.

Just wondering peoples thoughts about the next coach, when that time comes. No babcock isn't leaving anytime soon. But sooner or later he will. Be it retire or whatever. So who are the young coaches that you would like to see here down the road?

Going to add one more though to this thread. Most teams, us included carry 14 forwards. No team what to be all small or all big. doesn't work. Philly proved that under Clark and the ducks are showing that again. You need a good mix. 7 and 7 is about perfect. if you look at our group of forwards, who are big and who are small, and where does the real problem lie? By big I typically talk about guys over 6ft and over 200 pounds. Our small forwards are: Dat, Z, Filppula, Helm, Emmerton, Mursak, and Nyquist. That group is pretty solid. Our big forwards are : Burt, Franzen, Cleary, Abdelkater, Miller (kinda) and maybe Sheahan(spelling). That is not an awe inspiring group. Only 6-so 1 short to begin with, and the group is 3 old broken down guys and 3 checkers. Now which group is our problem? Which group do we need to really be focusing on? The worst part is, we are tied to those 3. maybe franzen has trade value, but that is it. Burt has a no trade clause IIRC and cleary is toast.

Now who is talking about prospects? You do realize that for everyone that makes it, there are 20+ that don't right? Most of those guys are 3+ years from even be considered. heck half of them have yet to play a professional game. Yes we drft and develop well. But what does that mean? We have what, 15 guys on our roster that we drafted? In a span of 20+ years. Think about that. That is less than 1 pick per draft ever turns out. Ok we traded a couple. But not that many. Maybe dat and Z play their whole career here. I have no issue with it if 1. they produce and 2. their pay matches their production. But in both cases their ends are far closer than you want to realize. They are also dropping faster than you seem willing to accept. Fact is the RW are the second oldest team in the NHL-based on the 2011/12 season. Heck babcock said it best after the playoffs "we seem to be headin in the wrong direction". His words-paraphrased, not mine.

An R Lee sighting.......always cool......

Maybe to early, but on the other hand you always look down the road. I have no idea who it is going to be, but what i would like to see happen is the next HC be on our staff for a few years first.

No problems, and thanks. I came here, because i heard some really good things about this site. Other sites i am on, have people who's opinions i respect kept pointing me to here. So here I am. Sometimes I will be in the majority on opinions, and sometimes minority. But that is fine as long as we all stay civil.

here is a link to a helpfull cap site for the NHL. http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=15 Hope this doesn't violate any rules......

Evcery team rebuilds. The question is which is faster? Either way you do drop off. But do you wait untill everyone has retired-and get NOTHING for them? Or move them and get something back that can be part of your next upswing. We had a 15 year run that was awesome! 95-2010 there was no one better. Not even close. But now it is time to get the pieces for the next great run. No we are very very competive. we just got beat in the 1st round. We didn't win our division. As for datsyk, is he is healthy he is going to make more than he does now. 36 year olds are guys you fill in holes with, not build around. he is already slowing down over the past five years. Injuries are becoming more common. If we could move him, yes I would. But like I said, not for prospects. I look for guys in the league just comming into their prime.

The loving and warm posts, are so wonderfull. As stated earlier, I am new here. I have no idea what has been posted before I joined. I did notice that LGW info is out of date, which is why I posted it.