Richdg

The hard part this off season is fixing the D. Hollands biggest challenge. We have 3 old high priced vets that are not producing making a combined 16 million, a young guy that is turning into a top pair guy in Dekeyser who is about to get 6 million per. That is 4 guys out of 7/8 making 22 million or so. We have to add another true top pair guy and they are expensive. 2 of those guys would be better. The problem becomes having half of your cap tied up in the 6 guys on the blueline. Now that cap crunch gets fixed over the next 2 years with Green leaving and Kornwall finally being able to be moved. I know Yandle is a popular choice around here but IMHO he isn't good enough. To me he is a second pair guy not a top pair guy.

Correct. There are reasons why guys are drafted early and drafted late. To put a ton of stock in a late round pick that is doing well overseas is hopeful at best silly at worst. If you can't see the difference in the game at the different levels then I can't help you.

I understand your thoughts on him but how many euros have thrived in europe and failed here? Its a long list..... Until he plays in GR and proves he can handle things he is a ? at best.

BTW its not until next summer-2017 that Kronwall's contract changes. He has a full NTC through the 2016/17 season. The it goes to a partial were he has to name 10 teams each season.

Again there are players on this team that will be here next year. Z, Datsyuk, Abby, Kronwall, Ericsson, Green will all be here. Between the large salaries, the NTC's, and the declining returns all will return. Larkin, AA, Mantha, Dekeyser, and Mrazek will be here-they are the future of our team. That is 11 of the 23 man roster. I fully expect Marchenko, Oullett, and Sproul to all be on the team-if they are not we will lose them for nothing on waivers. That makes 14 and leaves 9 spots left to fill. Svechnikov will be in GR. Everyone else we own can be moved in the right deal. Best guess on next years cap is about 74 million. The 14 players listed will cost us about 48 million after we resign DD @ 6 and Mrazek @ 3 and Marchenko @ 1.5. That leaves us with 26 million to spend and we need to add 9 more players to fill out the roster. The breakdown is we need to add: 1 goalie 1 or 2 Dman if one of Oullett, Sproul, or Marchenko is moved... 7 or 8 forwards

Agree and disagree here. Yes our most pressing need is at D. But there has to be value in who you draft. Most of the D prospects in this draft are 3+ years away, we need help now. Thats why I hope we trade/sign a UFA or 2 for the blueline and continue to draft at F were there is value. On that note most of our best F prospects are already in Detroit and there isn't much behind them atm. Only Scvehnickov (spelling) is left as a high end prospect.

But money or a lack of it isn't our issue. we are the 3rd or 4th best team in the NHL in that area. We make a huge profit every year, well above what we are allowed to spend. if the team was losing money or had limited revenue like Ott or Winn then this might have some merit. But that is not the case. Our issue is the talent level not the bank accounts.

I am not saying we should keep all of those guys. But does anyone want to bet that at least 11 of them are still here come the 2018/19 season? I would not bet against that. We need to trade to improve, it really is that simple. That is also something that Holland has refused to do up to this point. Trying to build via UFA is much harder and often leaves teams with old high priced vets that are not producing and can't be moved.

Lets be clear. I don't hate Lil Bert. He would have been there in the 4th or 5th round. That is the part I dislike. Both of our 2nd round picks that year were too early. bailey was there, much higher rated and will be a top 6 forward in the NHL. Neither Lil Bert nor Nastasiak will be. Checkers? Sure. Both could still have long careers in that role. But it was a missed opportunity to add even more talent to our team. That can't be over looked. Now please don't take this personnel it wasn't meant as such.

Really? Checker only. We reached to take him in the second. Same as ferraro.

I would be happy with any one of Gauthier, Brown, or Jones. Different player types but all fill needs. Gauthier is Homer 2.0. he is going to score around 30 goals a year all from 15 ft or closer to the net. That is his game and he LOVES to play that way. Brown is a tall 2 way C, a poor mans Premieau. Not as fistic but same type of game. Good skater, good in all zones and should be a 20-25 G 50-60 point guy. Jones is more like McCarty. Big fast and physical and should score 18-22 G per year. All 3 make us a better team in a couple of years. All 3 fill major needs. Funny how your tune has changed from the prospects thread...... Just a reminder.... http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/75505-tyler-bertuzzi/ Back then he was the second coming. Now what he did doesn't matter because he was a 3rd year guy blah blah blah....

That is always the issue with all prospects: Junior is not the NHL Maltby was just one example. Lil Bert scored a ton in the OHL but to date not much in the AHL.

http://www.thedraftanalyst.com/prospects/max-jones/ http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/max-jones/22601/ http://octopusthrower.com/2016/03/03/detroit-red-wings-draft-profile-max-jones/ there are of course others. Yes he has tools to be a good offensive player, but then again so did Stu Grimson and kirk Maltby. Neither scored much in the NHL. Will Jones? To soon to know. I like the kid and will not be upset if we take him. I prefer Gauither as he is already scoring at a much higher level. Jones is the better skater between the 2. But anytime we can add an in-state kid that is a legit prospect is a plus. Gauthier had 41 goals in 54 games for VD. To go along with the 32 goals in 50 games that Scvehnikov scored, this becomes a good pair to add in 2-3 years.

Just some more thoughts..... For the 2017/18 season the cap should be around 78.7 million. That year we have 43 spent already. Between now and then we have 13 RFA/UFA that we should resign or trade. Larkin, Mantha, AA, Tatar, Pulks, Jurco, Glendening, Dekeyser, Oullett, marchenko, Sproul, Mrazek, and Sheahan. We have about 35.7 million to resign those guys. That averages out to 2.75 million per player. Some of these guys will be making much more than that. Tatar, Larkin, Mantha, Dekeyser, and Mrazek may/could get a lot more than 2.75 million per year when they resign. But doing that is just standing pat, we haven't added anything yet. To trade/sign some outside talent is going to add a ton of salary. Which brings up the question, will we have the room to resign Datsyuk if he wants to come back? Not sure we will. Yes moving Howard down the road will free up some space. The point is things could get tight. if it comes down to bringing in a star player in the 27-30 age range at 7-8 million or resign 39 year old Datsyuk, which makes more sense? of course Holland needs to find and sign that player first.....LOL

He is not a natural offensive player. That doesn't mean he can't become a good scorer. That is not my opinion either. Most scouting reports on him say the same thing. Does he score enough at the NHL level?

Max Jones is going to be a good NHL player. The question with him is offense. Will he score enough to move above the checking line? He has good size, good speed, loves to hit, and will gladly drop the gloves to protect his team mates. he could be a poor mans McCarty. But is that a first round pick value? That is the question with him.

No but I was being a smart a$$. But the point remains, we have plenty of veteran leadership without Datsyuk. That is something we still have a bunch of.

So Zetterberg isn't the C for the next 4-5 years? Kronwall is going to get swallowed up and disappear? Ericsson is gone? Abby? Miller? Green? All are vets and still on the team.

How much was Nicky paid his last couple of years? About 6 million each. To think there is going to be a dramatic pay cut is naive. This is Holland and the RW's we are talking about. Over pay for loyalty-which we have done for years. Which is part of the reasons we are where we are. Over the past 5 seasons-this one is not finished yet Datsyuk has played 280 out of a possible 365. In those 280 games he has 258 points which is very good. But he doesn't play full seasons anymore. Paying a guy 5 million per year to play 60 games and produce 55 points is not a smart use of your money/cap. Keeping guys around to long is what kills dynasties. Datsyuk has been a great RW for a long time. I expect him to retire next summer. He has plenty of money, has won cups, and his family lives in Russia. It is time for all to say thanks for the memories and move on.

Cap hit is what matters and that is 7 IIRC. Even if it drops to 5 mill that is still to much for the 4th C. But lets get back to the point. This isn't a thread about Datsyuk. This is a thread about improving the RW's. Now if you think that a 38/39 year old player is key to improvement then this fits.

He is 39 next summer when his contract expires. Larkin and AA should both be playing 17-18 mins a game by then. Sheahan with another 15 as the checking line C only leaves 9-10 mins left to play for the 4th C. Datsyuk at 7 mil per year for 9-10 mins a game? or do you take the time from your future? Besides, its not like he is a superstar anymore. Good, yes. But not a super star. In the past 5 seasons he has had 20+ goals once, 50+ points twice, and played over 60 games twice. The O isn't there and he can't stay healthy. I would bet he retires next summer.

Larkin, AA, and Sheahan are natural C's. So is Helm and Glendening. That makes 5 C's. For them to develop at the position they need to play the position, not play wing. Now Helm could be gone so that means we have 4 C's left. Not to mention Z who also can play C. There is zero reason to bring him back. He is expensive and we are not going to win a SC with him here. If he wants to play in the NHL-no one knows what he wants, let him play somewhere else.

As for Datsyuk, what benefit is there to bringing him back? We are not going to win the SC or even be a real contender with him. He is going to get 5+ million just like all of our past greats did to play. Bringing him back would only be taking more minutes away from talented young prospects that need to play so we know what we have.

Let's not pretend that Holland has done nothing, because that isn't true. he has. He hasn't done enough yet to make an impact. he did sign Green and Richards last year in an attempt to improve the team. Didn't work but he did try. So yes I do expect a couple of moves to happen. What those moves are is the only question. I do expect at least 2 players to be brought in from the outside.

Let's not hold our breath for Stamkos. Remember the sure fire signs of Parise and Suter anyone? How did that turn out? IMHO it is 99% certain that Stamkos will either resign with TB or go to Tor. Everyone else is less than 1%. So let's not spend to much time on the topic. Yes Z and D are part of the problem which everyone including Holland should have seen coming. As players age they 1. get hurt more often, 2. Take longer to recover, and 3. Don't produce as much. Datsyuk has 1 year left and he is gone. I would not bring him back even if he wants to return. Time to turn the page and move on. The contracts of Z, Kronwall, and Ericsson are much harder to deal with. IIRC Kornwall's contract does change this summer from a full no trade to a modified no trade-name 10 teams thing.