Richdg

Yup read all of those. Not one of those says he is lazy. They all say he needs to improve. Which he does. A lazy person/player is a guy that doesn't work to improve his short comings. By all accounts he is working hard and has been. The same is true of Mrazek BTW. Yes he had 2 shutouts in the PO's. He also had 2, 4 goals allowed games and had to be pulled. That would be the inconsistencies that come with youth. Does that make him lazy? No. That means he has things to work on, nothing more.

Which is why I still want more high end F prospects. Datsyuk is gone in 2 years and Z isn't far behind. If both Mantha and Larkin pan out we are just replacing our loses, not improving. Of course the same is true on the BL. The one area we are set at is G, so no G's in the first 4/5 rounds are needed.

Agreed frank. But and this does relate to them, if either one/both are moved for a top pair Dman we do need to go F. I still prefer to go F anyway. I would rather sign/trade for proven vets on the BL than to trust prospects. Kinda like pitching in baseball. You draft pitchers becasue there is a shortage of quality arms. You can always trade for hitters. In hockey goal scoring is a premium.

This already happened and we are all still here. Most fans can handle 1 or 2 bad years and live with it. When you start talking 10, 15, 20 years that is something different. as for the previous post, no 1 person is ever the sole reason for a teams success/failures. But when you have good teams make 1 key change and then start winning championships there is a strong case to be made. Bowman won every where during his career. There are reasons why he is in the HOF. MI bought the team in the early 80's. it was 15 years +/- later that we won a cup. Jimmy D was there for 15 years before we won a cup. Stevie was there etc...... It was when we added Bowman to the mix that we went from good to great. There really isn't any debate about either.

At 19/20 he is ahead of guys like Nyquist, tatar, Sheahan etc..... Nyquist and Sheahan were 3 years older when they finally played in GR after their college careers. None of them dramatically out produced mantha in his first year. Yes he needs to work hard and improve. No one disagrees with that. But no one in the organization is questioning his work ethic either. The "lazy" bit is a fan generated tag, nothing more. Go look up the quotes by Blashill. Once mantha was healthy and playing he was "performing as expected" per Blashill. Everyone knows that going from amateur junior hockey to pro hockey is a major adjustment. Some guys do it quickly, others take time. Blashill also beleives Mantha "will become a star". Another quote that can be found man times from this past year. So whom to believe? His coach that believes he will be a star or a fan on the internet? Hmm.....

getting closer. rumors and hopes by fans abound..... we all keep waiting and waiting and waiting..... will ken "stand pat" holland make a big move? or just a little move by moving back and adding a 2nd? it is fun to dream...... PS I doubt Mantha gets moved. In fact i expect him and Larkin to work on the same line in GR next year and feed off each other. I wouldn't be surprised if mantha has a 30 goals in 50 games type of start and becomes our "trade deadline pick up". As good as Larkin has looked he needs time to get bigger and stronger. A full year in GR then make the RW's for the 16/17 season out of camp.

That is your opinion. Murray hired Bowman and Bowman chased him out of town. Bowman and Jimmy D ran the team for a couple of years, made tons of changes to the lineup and style of play, then we started to win cups. Go back to the 95 team that got swept by the Devils. Remember how we HAD to use Grimson in the top 6 because no one else could handle the physical play. Shortly thereafter Kocur came home to be "a policeman" not an enforcer-Bowmans words. That was the creation of the Grind Line: Maltby-Draper-Kocur. No one on our current team could break that line. maybe Datsyuk could if we chose to use him like that. But hey all is fine! Kum by ya......

If true, should be a good move.

What are you talking about? Prior to Bowman coming we were a PO team every year but won. Had won multiple Division crowns and made deep runs in the PO's. have you forgotten the back to back defeats to the oilers in the mid/late 80's in the CF's? Ramsey was on our roster in 96/97, it was his last year. he was also on the 95 team that lost to the devils. But of course you know all of this. You are just refusing to fact reality. Bowman was the reason we became a Cup team. Period. The skill was there before him, but the Cups came with him. holland was handed a loaded team. Had a HOF coach running things. Talking about an easy job, he had it. Since Bowman and our stars have left we have gotten worse year after year. UFA's don't come anymore and Holland isn't making trades. So what happens in the future? I bet we miss the PO's soon. Could well be this year baring some major moves. That is on Holland and only Holland. now can he change the direction of the team? yes. Will he? Stay tuned......

In many ways the RW's under Holland have returned to the days of the RW's under Murray. Skilled-yes. Able to put up points? yes. Winning Cups? No. Prior to Bowman coming on board we had tons of skilled guys that could skate. Stevie and Feds putting up 120+ point seasons. winning 55+ games per year. yet in the PO's when the refs look the other way we lost every year. Bowman changed that. Yes we still had skill, but he was the reason we added grit, size, toughness, and most importantly-everyone played D. feds become a 80 point guy and great defensive f'd. Stevie was threated with a trade if he didn't start to back check. Rouse, ramsey, Vladdy, fetisov were all added the the BL for toughness. Mccarty, lapointe, ward, Pushor, were all added through the ranks. then to put the bow on the top, we added the best POWER FORWARD in the game at the time. Not to mention smart and cheap moves for guys like Draper, Maltby, and Kocur. This group won us 3 cups. That is 12 guys who all brought grit to our lineup. That is over 50% of the roster. Do we have even 3 guys that can compare to those 12? No. those players were all Bowman's guys. he wanted them all, asked for them by name publicly. Jimmy D went out and got them. Don't forget Murphy to this group! LOL Today, those are the guys that Holland wants to trade away. he doesn't want the gritty players that do the dirty work. But look deeper. it isn't about fighting. very few of those guys did any. or rarely did. But they were veteran guys with leadershop, experience, toughness, and many were no longer as skilled as they once were. All of the teams that win the SC every year have skilled players, you can't win without them. But they also have toughness and grit. They may not fight, but no one does in the PO's. They all have guys that go to the corners and bang away, guys that put the body on the other teams D, most have guys that work the front of the nets as well. We don't do those things and haven't in several years. which is way we haven't come close to a SC in several years. The last 2 years we had to win our last game of the regular season to even make the PO's. Then a 1st round exit. Now if we can see this, I am sure kenny can. The question remains, as it has been asked for several years now: What is kenny going to do about it? To date he hasn't done much. The why is the unknown.

Good to get our young guys playing pro hockey in NA. Seems like every year we hear about "hot swedish player x" and how they will be awesome, and yet so few do. He has 3 years to make something of himself and I wish him well.

If anyone here coaches youth hockey, or any sport for that matter, USAHockey has a ton of good articles like this one. http://www.admkids.com/news_article/show/523871 patience is key......

As mentioned before, anyone can be traded in the right deal. Now that being said, lets back up a bit. At the deadline Tor wanted Smith, Mantha, and our 1st for Phanuef. Now some think that Mantha and our 1st is going to get us a top pair Dman? Yes Phanuef is good, but is he even truely a top pair guy anymore? Maybe. So we are going to pay less and get more? Doubtful. If I had to guess I would bet some writer in Tor is hoping we trade Mantha, not heard we are trying to trade him. Think about it. If we were going to try and move him would Jimmy D be running around bad mouthing him? Makes no sense. But hey who knows. I doubt that anything happens.

Anyone, yes anyone can be traded in the right deal. It is all about the return.

Yes, offer sheets to RFA's have become something taboo the past few years. Which makes no sense. maybe it is time for the RW's to be bold. There are several reasons for this train of thought. 1. The UFA market is garbage the past few years and looks to continue that way. 2. Trades are very expensive. 3. we are not drafting at a high enough position to get the truely premier talent very often-if ever. Now this is just an example but follow me here. What is our biggest need? A RHed top pair Dman. The most premier position in the game. To trade for that type of player would cost us Nyquist, tatar, and Smith just to get the conversation started. Very expensive. But what about a RFA? we could offer a guy like Hamilton a 7 year 51.8 million contract and only have to give up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round draft picks. Chances are only one of those 3 picks will ever turn out anyway, it would take several years for those guys to make an impact, and we are only talking about an age difference of 3 years. So what would we gain? we get a 6-5/215 Rhed Dman that is 21 years old. he joins Dekeyser as our top D pair for the next 10+ years. 10 years from now they are 33 and 31 respectively, so should have time left. 51.8 million over 7 years is a 7.4 million per year cap hit, so not out of line. we also weaken a division rival that is in cap hell and may not be able to match the offer. as for the picks, not a big deal at all. we lose 3 guys that are 18 years old and have never played a pro hockey game, but gain a guy that is already becoming a star in the NHL. 5 years from now paying hamilton 7.4 million per year will be considered a huge bargain. There is no down side here. The worst thing that can happen is the B's find a way to match the offer. That is it.

Just not much in the UFA class atm. It will be interesting to see who else is let go. Right now just can't get worked up at all about any of these guys for long term big money deals. Which all will want.

I fully expect us to move back. How far? It of course changes the prospects available. If I was a betting man I would bet against us picking at 19. The only real question is do we trade our 1st for a lower 1st and a second or part of a package for a Dman? The next few days will be interesting.....

There are reasons why a bad team like Buf with tons of cap space is looking to buy him out. D is completely foreign to him and his attitude sucks. Now attitudes can be fixed sometimes, but he would be a downgrade from the guys we currently have and can field.

IIRC when you draft a player that is in Junior hockey you have to sign them shortly after they run out of junior eligability-which both of these guys have. College players and overseas players have a 4 year (college) and 3 year (overseas) window to be signed. I read the rules on this once several years and 1 cba ago..... So these could have changed.

Weiss playing more prevents more youth from playing, not helps it. Same with Franzen. Both need to go now and let the youth develop. Yes we need to get more physical which REQUIRES us to make trades. Don't expect Holland to make those moves however.......

Cleary as the future Griffins coach? Ok. Cleary as a DRW player? no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no etc...

Naw. Holland would be Paul Bearer, Babcock is The Phenom, and Blashill would be Kane. But that doesn't fit right.....

Please....Never insult the greatest anti-hero of all-time! The Phenom Lives Forever!!!!!!!!

end of the streak.... barely making it with the best coach in hockey. I like Blashill but he isn't as good as babcock at this point in time. I expect a step back.

no second round pick this year.....