Richdg

Now back to the topic. UFA's. There are 4 UFA Dmen that would help us out. Green, Franson, Petry, and McQ. All are RHed. Some are very good offensively-Green others bring D and toughness-McQ. Same at the F position. Stafford and Belesky are out there. 1 RW 1 a LW. http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?db=201415&sit=5v5&type=individual&teamid=0&pos=forwards&minutes=750&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC Using that link and looking at all F that played 750+ minutes of 5 on 5 hockey this year, only Datsyuk is better than Belesky 40th and Stafford 68th. Both are also under 30. A couple of F's maybe in trade, and were they rank. STL is going to make some type of changes. Could we get Backus? He is 37th on the 5 on 5 list, and there is the oft rumors O'reilly with the Avs, he is 72nd.

Yes. No second as of now in this years draft.

Yes. Guys that have scored 20+ goals in 5 of the past 6 seasons are stars. 3 of those years were for 25+ goals. Is he a super star? No. But he is a better offensive player than most of our current forwards. But hey, all is cool in the world. 3 of the last 4 years losing in the first round, and having to win our last game to even make it into the PO's. We are golden.......

It was this thread a couple of months back. I think he has a chance to do it. I also beleive oullett and marchencko do. ATM it appears the RW's believe those 2 are ahead of Sproul.

That is flat out wrong. nash, Ryan, neal, hornqvuist etc... have all been moved over the last 3 seasons. Players are always being moved. Big time star players. Just not by us. That is the issue. holland and many others have said they are trying to build through the draft. he has refused to trade and has failed in the UFA market. Again there is no team that has won a SC that way. Sooner or later you have to bring in outside talent. We lack stars as a team and have very few in the system that could be stars.

Hey Krsmith.... you see which Dman isn't playing for GR right now right? Sproul hasn't played a game since Marchenko went back down. Not sure why though......

Opps. was thinking Sandstrom, but he was a F.

Yes those trades happened BEFORE each of those teams won the SC. Its called building a team. Something we haven't been doing. We have been static for years now. The UFA market is dead, which means we have to trade and draft. Just drafting isn't enough. Many of those guys were also key players on their teams to win. Carter for example is LAK best and most consistant offensive threat. Chara, Boychek, and seidenberg are/were bostons top 3 Dmen. Sharp, Hossa, and Versteeg were dominate players for the Blackhawks. The Pens were the only team with limited outside players on their team. Of course we haven't talked about the Rangers yet. But they haven't won a cup yet either.....

LOL funny. So guys like Carter, Gaborik, Greene, Mitchell, Richards, Stoll, Williams, Penner, scuderi, Boychuk, Chara, Ference, Jagr, Kelly, Krug, Rask, Seidenberg, Siderberg, Thorton, Seguin (which includes later trades for Eriksson, Smith, and Hamilton), Bollard, Campbell, Hossa, Sharp, Versteeg, Gill, Guerin, and Gonchar are all nothings. All of which were traded for, signed as UFA's or in some cases part of a big name trade for extra picks. Which goes back to the point I was making. It is impossible for any team to win a SC in this day and age with all 23 guys on the roster being their normal draft picks. You can't produce enough talent that way regardless of how good you draft.

Nope. I have said he is a second pair guy. Have since Lids retired. Just because he was forced to become a top pair guy, doens't mean he is able to actually do it. Kronwall is a second pair Dman/power play specialist. Which is fine. It is also how he is paid. Now if we all understand that we can then build from it. Now to tie this into another thought. Drafting and developing Dmen. For whatever the reasons, Dmen talk longer to develop in general. Teams only have control of guys for 3 years in the minors before waivers. This makes developing your BL corp internally tough to do. Not impossible. If we go back in our own recent history and look at the period we were a dominate team 95-09, we had older Dmen that were mainly picked up from other teams. Yes we drafted Lids, Vladdy, and Fischer, but Coffey, Rouse, Ramsey, Fetisov, Murphy, Schneider, Rafalski, Hatcher, Krupp, the 2 samuelsson's, Chelios, etc... were all UFA's or trades.

We need to drag things out as much as possible to develop. Now that teams only have 3 seasons in the minors for their prospects before waivers, college hockey could become more important. Would love greenway as our pick, with meloche as the second option over all.

Just for a reference point, some of the UFA's and trade baits: 5 on 5, over 1000 mins Green is 3rd Franson is 41st Petry is 65th Seabrook 83rd Phanuef 93rd

Now to be fair to Kronwall, where he is really good is on the PP. Of all the Dmen that had at least 100 mins of PP time, he was 12th in the league. Dekeyser was 41st, our next best. But Nick had over 230 mins of PP time and DD had barely 100, which does impact the rankings.

He would be the D I would take. While we have lots of D prospects, only 3 are RHed and one of those Marchenko should be in Detroit next season. As Zidlicky reminded everyone, having RHed Dmen on the point does matter.

Since you asked: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?db=201415&sit=5v5&type=individual&teamid=0&pos=defense&minutes=1000&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC Follow that link. For the 2014/15 season, of the Dmen that played at least 1000 mins of 5 on 5 hockey, Kronwall is 70th in the NHL. He is 3rd on the RW's behind Dekeyser at 27th and KFQ at 67th. Zidlicky was 99th and Ericsson was 107th. Smith was 113th. Now if you use just the Corsi rankings here is the rankings: KFQ 41st Zidlicky 58th Smith 84th Dekeyser 86th Ericsson 91st Kronwall 117th Using fenwick: KFQ 63rd Zidlicky 66th Dekeyser 70th Smith 89th Ericsson 90th Kronwall 117th

Here are some guys that are in most mock drafts between 15-22. The group that we should have to pick from at 18/19. Svechmikov 6-2/185 LH LW. Room to grow, good hands and feet. Bittner 6-4/195 LH LW. Tall and lanky atm, but should be a classic power forward. Meier 6-0/195 LH LW/RW. Physical offensive player, needs to work on his D. Roy 6-0/185 RH D. Undersized offensive Dman. Needs work in his own end. Ek Eriksson 6-2/180 LH C. Great effort 2 way player. Average skills atm. Effort carries him. Chabot 6-2/180 LH D. Good sized offensive Dman. Needs work on D. Meloche 6-2/200 RH D. Big and mobile. Good both ends. Greenway 6-5/225 LH LW. big and physical with good skills. Only getting better. Derguckov 6-4/200 LH C. Typical big Russian C. Good skills and good in both ends of the ice.

More that you missed: Seabrook, Dekeyser, Hjilmarlsson (spelling), Boychek, Niskenen, Phanueaf, Jones, Markov, and Edler.

If you as a fan wish to sit there and be ok with the last 5 years, and the lack of activity by our organization, that is fine. I am not ok with it. Other teams have made moves and of course won cups. No every move doesn't work, we all understand that. But others have made moves to make their runs. Pitt, Bos, LAK, and Chicago have all made moves and yes won cups. They did not get into position strictly by drafting. All signed UFA's and made trades. We haven't and are now a starless team. A team that has to fight through the last game of the season to even make the playoffs.

Thought it was time to move this back up. It is that time of the year.

Yes he is and would love to have him. Now prepare for the non-stop trolling about "my love for big forwards".........

Should be 18th IIRC. With us not having a second rounder from the Cole trade, but picking up 3rd from Dal, I would like to trade down 8-10 spots and try to regain a 2nd round pick.

Yes Mrazek could become a star. My point is we don't have any stars now. Which is true. Yes we still have some solid guys and good players, but no real stars. Just because Weiss was the best or one of the best, out of a bad group, doesn't make him a star. A star offensive player to me puts up multiple 80+ point seasons. Weiss never has and never will. Add in his average D and lack of physical play, he falls short in all catagories.

That is expected if we can't trade him.

Elite players don't need others to make them elite. The truely elite players in every sport make others around them better. That is very much part of the description of being elite.

The question was about trades. More to the point: trades for star players. Something we haven't done in a long time. Yes we have made some trades, but those were for band aid type players, not difference makers. Yes it is true that talent can come from many places. But and again this is key: we are only using 1 of the 3 major sources. No big time UFA signing-even Weiss wasn't big time, and no trades. That leaves only drafting. Yes some nice pieces have come through our system, but not enough to replace our loses. We are now a superstar less team. All of our stars have retired or have declined due to age where they are no longer stars. Good yes, but not the type of players that scare other teams and force teams to game plan to counter them.