Richdg

maybe then we can trade Franzen to the Pens for Neal! 1 for 1.

upper body yes, but not that exercise. When do hockey players ever have to use those motions? never. Pull ups are hard to do unless you do that specific exercise. back when I was in the army I could knock out 55-60 pushups every PT test. But 2-3 pull ups is the best I ever could do. Now as time has moved on..........nevermind.......lol

hate the Rangers and NY in general. But then again the only thing I like about LA is the Kings and that is mild...... Kings in 5. Bettman gets what he wants: the 2 largest TV markets in the final. Money is rolling in.

Greene and Fayne would be great options. Both big and physical, RHed, and UFA's. Either should be a good pair with Smith. Yes. Jurco looks to be a more complete player down the road. Tatar is a sniper. There is already a replacement behind him that fits better in Pulkinnan-RHed. To get we will have to give. if we are going to give, give the guy that can be replaced the soonest.

I am not a big advanced stat guy myself. But here it is in a nutshell. Fenwick and Corsi add up goals and shots, and then divide by 60 mins. So in the example I gave Franzen produced 1.51 shots and goals combined for every 60 mins he played last year. That total was 184th in the NHL for guys that played at least 500 mins of 5 on 5 time. You are also able to look at players for various different situations. How did they do when ahead, or behind, on the PP or SHed, when trailing or leading etc....... Does it matter? is it a good way to judge performance? Who knows. It is kinda like WAR in baseball. Younger fans tend to follow it, while older fans follow average and HR's. Ditto.

For you younger types that believe in advanced metrics, Franzen was our 10th best forward this year offensively. He was 184th in the NHL for those that played at least 500 minutes of 5 on 5 time. That is outside the top 6 category either way. He was 9th in the HARD (defensive) rankings among the RW's forwards. Now to be far, he was our best on the PP. But then again, when we are trailing and playing 5 on 5 he drops down to the 12th best forward offensively. In other words, when the team needs him he gets worse! So Franzen is really good when no one is on the ice to guard him. If he actually has to play vs. someone, he folds like a house of cards.

pull ups for hockey players? serves almost no bearing on the game whatsoever.

Mckee is to far away to even talk about. let him finish his career at WMU as a LW, then a year or 2 in Gr, then we can talk. Maybe he never makes it, maybe he does, either way just to far away to know.

In the real world, the contract is very much part of the value of a player. In Franzens case his sucks and will continue to do so for 6 more years. As for talent, I suggest you watch teams other than the RW's once in a while. ALL of the guys I listed are better players today, and most will be in the future as well, than Franzen is today-who will only continue to decline going forward. As for money, it isn't mine. But I do care about the cap and its impact to add or keep talent in the future. We have one more chance to walk away from Franzen's contract with 0 penalties. That is this summer with a buyout, which is what Holland should do. I doubt he does that would be bold and require some guts. Something he seems to have lost late in his career.

I think this quote and the comments that Z made almost need their own thread. I tend to agree with this and will add to it. 16 teams out of 30 make the playoffs every year. The top 53% make it. Better than half. Making the PO's isn't that big of a deal in and of itself. It is akin to going to a bowl game in college football. Everyone goes to a bowl game and thing is, most people don't care. When people don't care you are done. It took us a long time of dominating the NHL to win the cup in 97. It made the organization hungry. Made us the fans hungry, made the players hungry. Everyone was focused and driven. Now????? We as an organization are far to fat and happy. We made the playoffs! We're number 15! We're number 15! etc...... We won 39 games this year out of the 82 regular season games. That is under .500! Everyone that has ever played for the RW's retires and gets a job as an advizor or consultant with the team. Jimmy D is staying getting a paycheck, Holland, Chelios, Draper, Osgood, Fischer, etc..... One of the quotes earlier this week about Mantha, Holland mentioned he had to talk to the other 10 scouts.... 11 guys are making decisions? Becoming fat and top heavy is what kills companies. GM anyone? Now we are getting to the point that the 2 biggest stars we have, in their final few seasons are getting upset? Or at least tired of the team not making a 100% serious effort to win the cup. Can anyone blame them? These 2 go out and give 100% they have in every game. They play through pain and injury, datsyuk is 8000 miles from his daughter and still giving everything he has. Why? To win the cup. Z and D are also smart enough to know that as they age, their skills are dropping off. They know they need help from several sources to win another cup, and both really want to! Can we all say with 100% conviction that Holland and the management of the RW's have done everything they can to try to win the cup the past 5 years? No. Who was the last big time UFA signing? Rafalski? Who was the last big time trade? Chelios? Did not those 2 help us win cups? How many names have we been rumored to be in on and not get? Bobby Ryan, Ryan O'reilly, Ryan Kesler, seems to be a theme there.....LOL, Jay Bouewmester (spelling), Edler, Rick Nash, and many more. Would we not be a better team with 2-3 of those guys on it? Yes we would. Maybe still playing this year instead of golfing. What has our PO record been the past 4 seasons? Not very good. 3 first round exits and a second round exit. But but but we played the Hawks tough last year. BS! The hawks didn't even show up until game 3, then kicked our a$$ in 4 of 5. This is the second time since the end of our season that Datsyuk has said something about the direction of the team. yes he has been polite, but we can not ignore the fact he is unhappy. He has 3 years left on his contract. There is no surer way to get him to retire and go home than to continue down our current path. If just making the PO's and losing early is the new standard, why would Z continue to play for his remaining 6 years? make a deep run or 2, or show that we are close and we might get an extra year of of them. Just being in the top 53% isn't going to do that, and should never be ok with us the fans. end rant

Ksmith, yes they are all better than Franzen. In fact what would happen if we offered franzen for anyone of those guys in a straight up 1 for 1 deal? Earthquakes from the other team laughing so hard. Why do I talk about goals with Franzen? because that is all he brings to the table. Some scoring. he isn't fast, doesn't hit, doesn't fight, below average defensively, he isn't a leader, not a play maker, so what does he bring? NOTHING! Other than a few goals in the 12-15 game stretch were he actually cares and is motivated.

Dat, so right. I have said many times..... either rebuild or go for the cup. Pick one and do it. I am ok either way. Stop with the half a$$ measures.

DD.....really? Ok here you go: Doan Boedker Hanzel Ribeiro Vermette Vrbata Backlund Monahan Anisimov Dubinsky Foligno Jenner Johansen Umberger Barkov Bjugstad That is 16 guys right there and I am sure I missed a couple. All bring more to the game than Franzen does.

Franzen was 6th in goals this year at forward for our team. So there is 5 guys right there. Ok Alfie is not tech. a RW atm. So 4 plus mantha, plus whoever we draft in a couple weeks, plus guys like Helm, Abby, Sheahan, and Jurco. I wonder how many goals Pulkinnen scores playing 18 mins per night with Datsyuk?

wings4cup, we had cap issues more than anything this year. That is not the case. Also all of our top Dman prospects have 2-3 years left before they hit waivers. let them develop and EARN a spot in Detroit instead of just giving them a spot.

The talent just isn't there in this draft. Last year was the year to add a bunch of extra picks. We added 1, but 2-3 more would have been great. This year, after the first round-even then after the first 20, is a crap shoot. Yes some will turn out, but there just isn't much there that excites anyone.

yes we do. Only DD and big E are even close to playing quality D. Smith is an offensive guy, Kronwall is an offensive guy, Kindl just sucks, and Lashoff is a 7th. So yes we need a good 3rd pair guy. Mitchell doesn't fit being LHed-we have 6 of those, and the LAK have been rumored to want to keep him. Greene not so much.

Predates that, since you asked here is some reading: http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/11/aftonbladet_red_wings_forward.html http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/addressing-speculation-regarding-johan-franzens-ailment Now there are many other news reports, blogs, opinions by the beat writers etc.... That can be listed. It is fact that Franzen has social anxiety disorder. It is also fact that when he was out in Nov/Dec it WAS NOT DO TO A CONCUSSION. That happened later. It is true that no one knows for sure what was wrong with Franzen. Even he admitted he was sure if it was sickness, injury, mental or whatever..... Yes the story were he admitted it. Things like that don't go away. People learn to live with it, and from time to time fail and need to work on it again. Yes people have talked about it with Franzen for years. hell last winter he was out, no one knew why-even he didn't. When asked if it was injury or sickness he answered "I don't know".

Simple: 6-3/230, RHed, 31, UFA, from Michigan, solid defensive Dman. perfect guy to pair with Smith. Mitchell is also good sized, LHed, 37, and a UFA. No one is claiming that Greene is an AS. He is a 2 or 3 year guy to fill in while Sproul, Marchenko, and Jensen-all RHers develop.

To debate the value of Franzen is fine, but to come on here and deny that Franzen has anxiety issues that yes he has, Holland has, his teammates, and every writer that covers the RW's all talk about makes you look a little naive or very new to the RW's team. These issues have been going on for years and have been talked about by EVERYONE for years. This is not something new.

Ditto. But would he do it? Or would he quit and go home? Keep in mind, most of his time missed last year wasn't because of an injury, it was because of his mental/emotional issues. Hurt feelings, sense of not being worthy, or whatever his stuff is (and I am not making light of mental health issues), which seems to flare up when we need him the most.

50-50 that he moves. Chance it is to us? .0000000001%. I never say never, but with Holland......... Not his type of move.

Complete? One could make a very good argument that it really is just begining and will not be complete until we have the pieces in place to replace Datsyuk-3 years, Zetterberg 3-5 years, and Kronwall 3-5 years. Yes there are some young Dmen on the farm that may be able to replace Kornwall, but until they do we are just guessing. As of today there is no one on the RW's or in the system that looks even close to be able to replacing either one of Z or D.

Not even close. Our top 3/4 in the late 90's was much better. Vladdy, Nick, Pappa Bear, then Murp, etc.... later add Chelios. They were all very good to great 2 way players. Raffi and Kronwall are average defensively at best.

Yes on Kindl, no on Lashoff-as the 7th Dman he is fine. Struggles vs speed teams does ok vs big teams and is cheap, yes on Greene to be the RHed defensive Dman to pair with Smith. Now just find someone to pair with Dekeyser and we have 3 good pairs.